Brown Queen Diaries
Welcome to the Brown Queen Diaries, a podcast that celebrates the diverse experiences of women of color. Join us as we explore personal stories, cultural heritage, and the challenges and triumphs of navigating life as a brown queen. Each episode features insightful conversations with inspiring guests, touching on topics like identity, empowerment, wellness, and creativity. Whether you're seeking inspiration or connection, our community is here to uplift and empower you. Tune in and embrace your inner queen!
Brown Queen Diaries
Colorism, Feminism & Owning Your Voice
What happens when a young South Asian woman decides to challenge colorism, feminism, and mental health stigma head-on? In this powerful episode of Brown Queen Diaries, we sit down with Devni Vihara, the lawyer-turned-activist whose voice is reshaping conversations about beauty standards and gender equality in our community.
Devni's journey spans three countries - Born in England, raised in Sri Lanka, and finding her independence in Melbourne, she brings a unique cross-cultural perspective to her advocacy work. Her pivot from biomedicine to social justice wasn't just a career change—it was an awakening. "I realized I had a passion for social justice. I really cared about these things, but I didn't have the language to articulate it," she reveals, explaining how university studies gave her the vocabulary to name the injustices she'd witnessed throughout her life.
The conversation takes a deeply personal turn when Devni shares her childhood struggles with colorism: "I used to stand in front of the mirror as a child and be like, 'Where else am I pretty? Because my skin is too dark.'" Her raw honesty about battling beauty standards that elevate fair skin while belittling darker tones reflects experiences shared by countless South Asian women. Today, she celebrates her complexion and advocates for representation that embraces our diversity.
"We're all silently suffering and silently navigating these things, and if we just talked about it, we would feel less alone," she shares, challenging the silence that often surrounds mental health in South Asian communities.
Whether she's defining feminism in accessible terms, breaking down the difference between tokenistic representation and genuine inclusion, or teaching us Gen Z slang, Devni brings warmth, wisdom, and wit to difficult conversations. Her parting message resonates deeply: "You have a calling for a reason... Speak your truth, but be powerful, because we have so much power. We don't need to be empowered—it's there, we just need to do it."
Listen now to this inspiring conversation that will leave you questioning beauty standards, understanding feminism more clearly, and feeling empowered to embrace your authentic self.
Brown Queen Diaries by Priyanka Nomula
Brown Queen Diaries by Priyanka Nomula
Directed by Sandeep Raj
Presented by Aussie Talkies
https://www.instagram.com/thebrownqueendiaries/
https://www.facebook.com/thebrownqueendiaries
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPjW_Zw62eWa4QcQNJW3yHw76rlkqGr72&si=zUrI5wzOPV-k1gjE
Hello everyone, welcome to Brown Queen Diaries, season 2. This is a platform where we celebrate fearless South Asian women who are breaking barriers, redefining success, carving their paths to make an impact. Today we have a guest who is a lawyer, content creator and a strong advocate for feminism, gender equality and colorism. So let's welcome Devani Vihara. Hi Devani, welcome to the show. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm well, thank you. We've had some technical difficulties today, but we're going good.
Speaker 1:That's good. So let's start with the introduction. Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2:Okay, so my name is Debni and I was born in England. So I was born in England, lived there till I was six years old, then lived in Sri Lanka, so I was in Sri Lanka till I was 16 and then moved to Melbourne for year 12. I think living in three different places really solidified my values, like, I think, having three very distinct experiences in three very separate life stages. I think I was really aware of the issues that people face from a very young age and I think that has led me to where I am today in terms of what I believe in young age, and I think that has led me to where I am today in terms of what I believe in um, but moving to Australia as a 6 17 year old, I always say it was like jumping out of the plane and figuring out the parachute on the way down yeah, um, I moved here by myself and like I've had a lot of support from my family, but moving here by myself, figuring it out.
Speaker 2:And then, once I finished school, I studied a Bachelor of Arts. So I did international politics and gender studies. I initially went to study biomedicine, like every good brown girl does yeah but I realized that I had a passion for social justice.
Speaker 2:I really cared about these things, but I didn't have the language to articulate it. So, sitting in university, I was suddenly learning about my own history, my own culture, things that I've faced, and had the language to talk about it, which is why I started sharing what I was learning on social media, being like we don't need this to just be in a university lecture. These things all affect us, with its racism, colorism, patriarchy us every single day. Let's talk about it. And then, once I finished my arts degree, I did a jurist doctor, so like a postgraduate doctor of law, and that was a really I felt like that was the toolkit that I gained on these values and learnings that I had, like I understood the concepts, I understood how it applied, yeah, but now I have the tools to do something about it and I finished law school in 2023 okay and last year was my first year of working full-time as a lawyer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been. It's been a big year. And then, outside of all of that, I create content, I speak, I write, um, I sort of I do a lot of like advocacy and activism work, but I always say I was like an accidental activist, like I just really believed in it. I was like we need to talk about this. We've seen so many women and children experience the same thing generations, every single generation. We need to change something. That's why I started sharing it. People resonated and that sort of propelled that career as well. Yeah, and beyond that, I love to dance, I love to see my friends, I love to cook, I love to nap.
Speaker 2:Very cheerful you are very cheerful, but I do need my time to rot. Okay, I call my. Like no one, talk to me. I'm recharging me time the meantime.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's important. So, content creator, then you have activism, then you have legal field. There are three different, yet they're interconnected. Yeah, how did you actually like you kind of outlined of you know how you went into these three places, but what, what was the thought process behind it? Like, did you actually something kind of happened that you kind of thought, hey, I think this is my calling right, I really want to stand up and advocate for you? Know, you talk about feminism, you talk about gender equality. We'll touch base on those things. Right, did something happen in the background that you thought, hey, I, I actually think that I really resonate this person. You can sometimes have a role model doing that as well. So tell us a little bit about the history behind your.
Speaker 2:You know your pathways see, I usually call that my why and it's like why do I do this? Why are we sitting here today? Yeah, why, what's my why? Um, I think the first sort of seeds of that was as a young girl, sort of seeing, um, like my mom, my extended family, lots of really smart, intelligent, kind women in my life who had all these dreams that I think, socially, you expected to park to do, to care for your family, because of people saying you're a woman, so you can't do these things, you're a woman, you can't go into politics. Um, and those limitations, yeah, like I was so aware of it and I used to be the girl that when the teacher would say the boys, boys, go pick up the chairs, I'd be like I can do it too and I'll pick up this chair and move it to the next classroom. We want that, yes, but now I'm like I don't need to be a boy, I don't need to try and do what men do. There's so much power in being a woman that it's changed.
Speaker 2:But I think back back to what your question was. I think that seed was also seeing injustice and seeing how people were treated differently because they were women or because they came from a certain background and as a child I couldn't understand it like I think when I spoke to my family, when I spoke to like elders in the community, they would say, oh, it's, it's karma it's the past things that you've done.
Speaker 2:That's why this is happening to people, but but that's such a poor excuse. Like if someone is experiencing violence treated differently. Women are treated differently. The excuse that I always got as a child was it's their past sins.
Speaker 1:That's the perspective, right? People only know so much, especially in our South Asian community.
Speaker 2:And I think that to me, did not feel like a good enough reason and I started researching a bit more, like when I was like 12, saying you, you were a feminist and it still is, to a certain extent, a dirty word. People be like, oh, she's a feminist, like, okay, she's crazy, like this is, this is what she cares about, when all you're saying is treat people the same.
Speaker 2:and I think that's why I spend so much time actually learning it and studying it at a university level as well, because it affects every single day yes like 50 percent of the population is women, 50 percent of income, wealth, all of it like for businesses, like how, like appealing to that market, understanding what women want, understanding our health, like actually advocating for gender equality? That's where it started, yeah, um, and then, over the years, just sort of watching how, like I think, through every life stage as women, like we have so many expectations placed on ourselves, like look a certain way, act a certain way, talk a certain way, and I think this was a rebellion, but also a resistance to it, mmm, being like I can actually do things the way I want, yeah, and still be a good daughter, a good, good friend a good partner and ideally a good mother too, like it shouldn't be one or the other yes, yes.
Speaker 1:so you made an interesting point about feminism, right. There's always this negative angle when someone's saying that they are a feminist, right, so I would like you to tell your view about feminism. What is feminism right? Just in a layman view, so you know people understand why there is a negative spin to it and what it actually means to spin to it and what actually means.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think feminism, in terms of a very simple definition, is the belief that all genders should be treated equally equitably and people shouldn't be treated differently based on their gender. And feminism comes from patriarchy, which is that system where the world and if you look at politics, if you look at the way businesses are run, if you look at very simple things like the the way businesses are run, if you look at very simple things like the design of a safety belt, like a seat belt, they're all designed for men. They're designed for male bodies. It's because men have been centered in the creation of our society, and that is what patriarchy is. And the effects of that are the way women are treated, that sort of second-class citizen in situations, um, a lack of care of, like women's health, women's safety, like the fact that women can't even go for a walk at night without issues around our safety, and that's not treated as like something that needs to be addressed immediately. That's all patriarchy. So feminism, patriarchy there, it's like once the oppressor wants the thing, that's trying to be the solution to it. Yeah, yeah, um to your question, priyanka, I think the reason that feminism is treated negatively is because it challenges systems.
Speaker 2:It challenges a system where a certain certain people benefit from it. I think men also have a lot of negative effects of it, like the fact that, like men are treated as the provider and they can't be anything else. And you must be strong, you must not have emotions. That's still patriarchy. So it definitely affects men. But I think the reason it's treated as this dirty word is because of A challenger systems, b it's pop culture movies. None of it helps. You have the crazy woman dressed in an ugly way who's just so angry at the world, and then she takes off her glasses and now all the boys like her, because that's the ultimate goal, right? It's like, how do we present ourselves to men? And I think that's why certain women as well say okay, I'm not a feminist, because you don't want to, like, push, rock the boat, you want to keep the peace, you don't want to say anything. But the peace has never protected women, the peace has never helped women. It's only pushed us to hold up this system.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and then I think, um, the third reason is the fact that it's it's it's confronting, like it's it's scary, like you don't want to have to be the person that it's confronting, like it's scary, like you don't want to have to be the person that talks about these things. Yes, but the reason that I am a feminist and I think people have a lot of issue with the word being femme, like why is it not equalist?
Speaker 1:all of that, this whole thing in the social media and everywhere in the TV, feminist has got this negative spin and people think that they have a lot of issues, they have a lot of complaints to make, right, but it is coming from a very like, you know, kind of a broken place. Let's just say there's elements of equality, equity. There's elements of representation there's a lot of things. Representation, there's a lot of things and, like you said, all of those contribute to this whole like active activism, let's just say right, the feminism is actually kind of a what do we say?
Speaker 1:like a movement, movement yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, like to what you were saying. I think, like the, I used to not have an answer as a child, as like a 16 year, to why is it feminist? Why is it not equalist? The reason the word feminist is there is because it accounts for the fact that there is that discrepancy. It's not equal. If it was equal, then we'd be advocating equally, but there is that discrepancy and if that is your issue, that already says a lot. If your issue is the fact that we're centering women right now, if you care so much about men's rights, I think, like, then go do it like. It's not about that. What about ism?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's not about oh, what about this? What about that? Yeah, go do it like if that's what you're really believing in, but I think, um, I don't think people need to call themselves feminist.
Speaker 1:I don't think well, I think well, there is. There has to be a way of talking about that gap, right, somebody will have to talk. That came in, and then there's new words coming in. People are trying to avoid that word, but still speak for it. Which?
Speaker 2:is fine. I think we shouldn't have to agree with everything everyone says, but I think it's less about identifying with movements and actually doing something about it on the ground and actually helping. And I think, for me, one of the biggest reasons I'm so passionate about it is like our entire lives were taught. Like you know, your wedding, getting married, you'll find your man. All the fairy tales, all the stories end in a happily ever after where she finds her Prince. Yeah, what happens after? Yeah, like what after the happily ever after? Like, statistically, there are so many women face so many issues within, within patriarchy, but also in like marriages, in relationships. But we're so hyper focused on wedding, get married, find husband, but then we kind of abandon women once they're there yeah like, whether it's domestic violence, whether it's income, whether it's staying in jobs like we don't support women to balance these things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's why we need feminism as well, because too many women the like, so many women like, sacrifice their dreams to uphold this system totally yeah, we don't talk about that.
Speaker 1:Those elements of women's sacrifices and what, how they balance out the things. Lovely and I love the answer. I want to go into a little bit about colorism, right? So every South Asian woman, every South Asian girl can resonate with this, can relate to this. When you know we've grown up telling that don't go in the sun because you get tanned and you look this way, that way, mean, all of this is fine, but you have been a very fierce advocate for colorism. So what are your personal experiences? Can you share some?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I used to stand in front of the mirror as a child and be like okay, where else am I pretty Like because my skin is too dark, so what else do I have? Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 1:But do you know what I mean? It's sad too. It is sad, yeah, but I was.
Speaker 2:It was really sad, but I think I was like, okay, I'm a solution oriented girl. I'm like if my skin color is the problem, then I remember like smiling. I have a nice smile, okay, smile. My personal experience with colorism was that it was everywhere, like if you went into a supermarket. Fair and lovely.
Speaker 1:Fair and lovely lightening cream Grew up with that ad, and it's not great the ad is.
Speaker 2:She's depressed because she's dark.
Speaker 1:She uses this cream Suddenly she'll become overweight Two weeks later now everyone loves her, everyone wants to see her talk to her.
Speaker 2:Like that was the messaging At school. It would be don't go out in the sun. Like that was the messaging At school. It would be don't go out in the sun, you'll get darker. Family like family would be like oh, you're so beautiful but dark here. Have you tried this cream? Have you tried this lotion? My cousin's daughter did this. Try this. You go to the salon. They'll be like oh, have you tried lemon and baking soda? It helps with dark underarms. Like it was just everywhere. Like my nickname at school and this was from my best friends like my closest friends was black and it was because I was like, if this is going to be an issue, let me own it. And I still take that approach, but as a 12 year old, to be like I'm sick of people teasing me about it. I'm instead going to own it yeah and it really.
Speaker 2:It really takes a toll on your self-confidence, your self-esteem and how you carry yourself in the world when you think that there's something fundamentally wrong with me because I am darker and it's, but it's not something I was born with like. I didn't, as a child, believe this. It was taught to me and taught to me by people that I love as well, and I think now I love my skin like I am genuinely like, whether it's in modeling or makeup or even just on the everyday, I love my skin you're absolutely beautiful and you're kind of like the person who's basically kind of promoting that as well, like people.
Speaker 1:They are people who are not coming out, but they still have the same feeling, right? Um, it's, it's very important to have somebody actually say, hey, you look beautiful, the way you are, skin color does not matter, and and they look up to someone who actually speaks up. And since you're doing really good, you're actually, you know, supporting a lot of women out there that could be possibly thinking like you know they're not good enough just because they're look, they look certain way, or you know they don't fit in, or somebody's made this whole attempt of actually putting them down that you know, which is why I think, like I keep saying it, like I know now my skin color is not ugly, but I'm not gonna shut up, I'm not gonna sit back because, no, we should not have any more little boys and girls or women or men believing that like that's simply not true yeah and I think.
Speaker 2:Secondly, I think I'm so excited to become a generation of aunties that don't body shame. People call their fat when they see them, tell them they're dark, point out their flaws. Because what are we doing to the people that we love, like? Why are we creating insecurities, dimming down confidence? We should be telling young girls and boys and men and women how incredible they are for all the different things that they do, and our skin tone is beautiful, like if we are pointing out our own flaws within our own community.
Speaker 2:What hope do we have in pushing ourselves forward in the wider world?
Speaker 1:Absolutely yes. So, speaking of fashion, right, do you think the current fashion standards include or cater for South Asian women, all sizes, all colors, sort of thing? What's your view on that?
Speaker 2:That's really interesting because I think our South Asian culture, we have such a rich culture, like, look at a wedding, right yeah, like in Western culture you're like don't dress up too much, you might upstage the bride. In our culture you can never upstage the bride, no.
Speaker 1:Bring it on baby, Bring it on you can never upstage the product.
Speaker 2:No, bring it on, baby, bring it on. That's how beautiful our clothes, our jewelry, the colors, the vibrancy, it's just incredible. And I think fashion labels, especially now with the clean girl trend, minimalism, all that it doesn't, firstly, in my opinion, cater to our richness, but I don't expect it to. We need our creatives doing it, it. We need our South Asian fashion designers leading that charge. But in terms of mainstream fashion, how often do you see beautiful South Asian women and men on billboards, represented in campaigns?
Speaker 1:it's hard. Especially in Australia you don't see much of that representation.
Speaker 2:But also, even in south asia, it's always fair skin fair skin correct slim, like it's such a specific beauty standard that it's almost for me being cathartic to see it happen in hollywood, with like bridgerton and simona ashley, for example, like that was one of the first times I've seen anyone that has a skin tone similar to mine represented and not represented as oh my god, she's dark, but she's beautiful, but she is just beautiful. There's no caveats on it. No, she's hot, she's great, she's smart, she's everything. Yeah, that shouldn't be. It shouldn't I shouldn't have to be. It shouldn't be happening in 2024.
Speaker 2:Should have happened decades ago because, even like south asian, beauty standards apply both in the west and in south asia but, it's so much more pervasive in countries like india, sri lanka, bangladesh, where you like, tell me a dark-skinned actress in bollywood I can I mean there are a few people, but it's always, like you know, hard to find this.
Speaker 2:There's not much of scope for them and their career is limited and, yeah, the way their portrait is different, their portrait it becomes a part of their identity as opposed to just existing, just beautiful, just as they are. Yeah, and I think that's what I struggled with as a child. And I think, going back to your question, like even in campaigns in modeling in Australia, like you don't see enough of it, like even with media events that I attend, it's still it's still a very specific body. A beauty standard usually white, usually blonde. It's that Aussie beauty standard and I think we need to disrupt that, because if you look at our community, it's that Aussie beauty standard and I think we need to disrupt that because if you look at our community, it's different, like we don't. The beauty standard is multiculturalism.
Speaker 2:The beauty standard is our differences yeah and I think labels and fashion brands have a huge responsibility to cater to that um, to that market, because it's profitable we need to also feel belonged, like if you see somebody from our culture represent, like even if I'm going into a yeah like you know, I'm shopping online and you'd like to see how it looks like, how that outfit looks like on our skin tone.
Speaker 1:Right, it's not always like the skinny girl wearing white skinny girl wearing the dress it's perfect, looks good, but how would it look on me? Right? There are some brands that are actually doing that, but they don't.
Speaker 2:It's not enough and it should be the exception, like that should be the norm. Like do you want a bigger customer base, do you want your customers to be able to see the products and what it looks like on them, even when you're makeup shopping? Like there'll be like 15 shades of white and then four shades of brown and usually the undertones don't match our skin.
Speaker 2:Fit it? Figure it out mix your foundation exactly. Yeah, like I was shopping for makeup the other day and it's literally like a copy paste of the swatches on a brown hand. Yeah, I'm sorry, that's not how it works. So that's like it's enough. I never shop online for makeup and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because it just it doesn't work because of the brands not being inclusive. But I think there's a lot more people calling it out and brands being a bit more receptive to it. But it needs to be more than tokenistic, I think.
Speaker 1:Yes, my question. Next question was that Okay, so genuine inclusion versus tokenism? Right, what is the? How would you actually distinguish between these two? There are brands that actually do that genuine inclusion. They have all these campaigns going on with different screen shades, different sizes, etc. But some brands have a model or two just to cover. Right, let's forget about branding and fashion industry, etc. But how would one actually distinguish, right? Yeah, let's talk about that.
Speaker 2:I think, firstly, trust your gut. Like consumers are smart, we are smart. You can tell when it's artificial. But I think to me where tokenism comes in is when you have placed a person of color, like merely plopped them into a set yeah and said okay, tick done yeah and I think diversity is so much more than gender diversity is so much more than race diversity, so much more than body type.
Speaker 2:If you're truly committed to it, you can tell it shows, like, what's your actual back-end leadership? Like Are people of color treated like shit in your workplaces, do you?
Speaker 2:know, what I mean. There's no point having the most diverse front-facing campaigns if your team at the back doesn't treat people equally. But I think how you spot tokenism is like look at the history of the brand. Are they covering up? Are they doing it because it's trending, like right now? All sorts of brands are now pulling back on stuff with what's going on in the world. That tells you a lot. That tells you that you're not committed, you're following a trend. And on the topic of trends, I think like my biggest sort of call to action for our South Asian community is to trust our creative instinct, trust our designs. Like I don't know if you've seen the, the dupatta being the Scandinavian scarf yeah and all the dresses now with the skinny scarf.
Speaker 2:That's a South Asian design, like jewelry. It's not bohemian, it's Indian, it's Sri Lankan jewelry, yeah, and it shouldn't become trendy because white people like it, like our jewelry, our clothes. Our culture is rich and beautiful we don't need white brands and white models to validate that. Correct, like we should have been wearing dupattas with jeans yeah, long before yes, it was trending.
Speaker 1:It's not just about white culture endorsing that and it's become suddenly trendy, but it also I think it also comes on to us right. If you really want to flaunt it off, we should actually adapt little bits and bobs of our culture and flaunt it off, and then, whether it goes into, like you know, trend or not, it's fine, but I think we should still own that. Yeah, right.
Speaker 2:Because it's our individuality. Yeah, fine but I think we should still own that. Yeah, right, it's our individuality. Yeah, and I feel like I really tried to lean into it more lately and just be more honest and follow my creative instinct and speak our truth, wear our clothes, wear our fashion yeah because that's how you also create inclusivity you don't wait for someone else to say, hey, it's okay for you to do that yeah you go out and you do it for yourself yeah, hey, um, on that topic, I was actually talking to a friend um a few months back and we were talking about this quota system, right, um, to actually have opportunities given to different races, different backgrounds, etc.
Speaker 1:In india it works differently, in us it works differently. In australia, probably, it works differently, right, every country's got this different kinds of court system. What do you think about it? Like, say, for example, in university, they are like quarter systems given so that you know a background, like you know if your background, less income or different races, so that everybody gets equal opportunities. Right, and I believe that we should have it because of the history of what had happened. You see that in the leadership positions, as always, is white men, not even women, majority of that is taken by white men, and I feel like it's it's an amazing system in place, but there are controversial things about it, right, some people might actually do really good, but they didn't make it because somebody else who didn't do that good, but because they fall into that quota, made it. So this person's perspective would be like, hey, I deserve it, but because of the quota system I couldn't get in. What do you think about the quarter system?
Speaker 2:that's a great question, I think. For me, quarters, they serve a purpose and that purpose is adjusting for systemic disadvantage or historic injustice and, I think, and adjusting for equity, because have you, have you heard of that analogy where if there's a fence and there's three people of three different heights, totally not everyone's gonna be able to see over?
Speaker 2:and the traditional metric is give the shorter person a taller thing yes, but I'm like let's get rid of that fence, like let's just, let's get rid of the fence. And to get rid of that fence you need people, that you need people to charge on storm ahead, because we can't just say, okay, where we're smashing glass ceilings, what are we doing to lift the flow?
Speaker 2:yeah because it's not as easy, as we have a female ceo. We have achieved gender equality perfect. What are you actually doing for all the women that are coming, coming from coming before um? But I also think quotas they like. Research shows that they're useful and the idea that quotas disrupt a meritocracy so a system where people are only given roles based on merit.
Speaker 2:that's not true, because meritocracy has never operated without bias. If we were truly focused on meritocracy, then so many people in power right now wouldn't be there the same people that are harping on about meritocracy, then so many people in power right now would be there, yeah, the same people that are harping on about meritocracy, yeah, are some of the least qualified people to be in that role, correct?
Speaker 2:yeah and I think where I sit with quotas is it helps to get qualified, competent people into that room. Like, if you have a quota system for doctors, you're not going to be giving people who have never been, who are not doctors, that role. So this idea of or anyone can get in, that's simply not true and it's simply people projecting this fear that if I let other people in, I'm gonna lose opportunity. Equal opportunity means everyone equally gets a shot at it. Yeah, and some people need a bit more support because of equity.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:And like for the financial disadvantage, for example, like if you're the first in your family to go to university, if you have to work full time or part time to support yourself during university. That's a very different set of circumstances than someone who may live at home and have so much support Backed up by parents. Yeah, and this isn't saying one is right, one is wrong, it's just being realistic and being able to recognize that and support people.
Speaker 1:Lovely Because I feel like the quota systems are basically future-proofing right. We get people of different races, different backgrounds will actually add on to the diversification of anything Right, and you really put it really well.
Speaker 2:Even if you look at from a corporate perspective, like the number of female CEOs, the amount of female CEOs who are multicultural is a tiny percentage of that, oh you hardly find them.
Speaker 2:So then to turn around and say we've achieved gender equality because we have a 50-50 split is simply not true, because true diversity, true multiculturalism, true equality isn't just 50-50. It's reflecting the actual workforce, the people that are working really hard behind the scenes, and I think for that we also need to reconceptualize how we look at leadership. Yeah, um it. You shouldn't. It shouldn't just be confident masculine traits. Like you can be an incredible leader who's a bit more soft-spoken, who is kind, empathetic, compassionate or, within our cultures, like supports authority, works together as a team.
Speaker 2:Like this needs to change from the bottom up, but also from the top down yeah it has to be everyone working together and quotas is one part of that system that works together to achieve show equality yeah, yeah, I could go on about it, right the leadership roles and all of those things, but I think I want to touch base on a little bit of your side.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you're wearing multiple hats, you're in law. You're doing content creation. You're also modeling. You're you're very like, active in you know, talking about different elements of you know feminism, colorism, etc. So you're pretty much active and I see you in a lot of events promoting all of this stuff. So it's important to make space for your mental well-being. That me time. So how do you balance that?
Speaker 2:I don't, but I do, like it's a bit funny, sometimes you're just multitasking and sometimes some weeks are crazy, like sometimes you're just so tired, but you do it because you believe. I really believe that I'm building something, I'm helping people, I'm creating a change and that helps. That helps to sort of go do the really hard things when you're tired. But it's that really strong belief of I'm building foundations for things that I care about. Yeah, and I am so grateful, like I think as a child, I would have loved to know that this kind, as a child, I would have loved to know that this kind of work exists. I would have loved to see people doing this sort of stuff. And I always use, like, my younger self as my barometer to figure out if I'm doing a good job. I'm like, would 12 year old Devni think this Devni is cool and that I'm being dead serious? Like it's such a like. It's like I'm still.
Speaker 2:I'm still advocating for that little girl that didn't feel she had the words to speak up, didn't feel supported, felt like her entire role was this very specific thing. And I think women can do so many different things. We can model, but we can also be taken seriously in a courtroom, we can dress how we want to say taken seriously. In a courtroom, we can dress how we want to say what we want and still be taken really seriously because we are competent yeah and we shouldn't have to minimize ourselves, make ourselves smaller, say things in a very specific way to be taken seriously.
Speaker 2:And you didn't mention mental health.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I used to and I still sometimes do, but I used to really struggle with my mental health. So, and I don to, and I still sometimes do, but I used to really struggle with my mental health. So, and I don't talk about this a lot, but, um, one of the reasons why I moved to Australia at 17 was because in year 11 in school, when I was in Colombo, I was really struggling with my mental health. Um, it was like my parents and they would. They tried to be really supportive and they were really supportive, but they also struggled with but she's smiling, she's happy. How could she also be struggling with her mental health? And there was stigma around it as well. Like people used to say, if you're depressed, then what should I be? As as if you need a certain level of something to validate your experiences.
Speaker 1:I hear a lot of this insultation. I'm not sure what happens outside, but I've seen that yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's interesting because, like with mental health, there is the environmental stuff, there's also biological stuff, like there's mental health history in the family I've got polycystic ovarian syndrome which messes with my hormones.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and especially as a teenager, that manifested in depression and anxiety and like I've really struggled, but it wasn't always obvious, because I also did a very good job of pretending and holding it together, because I didn't know how else to be honest with my feelings and in year 11 I dropped out of school. And I dropped out of school because I overdosed and I attempted on my life oh my god and for my parents, like the.
Speaker 2:Just a couple of hours before that, we went for dinner as a family, wow. And then I got home and I was like, okay, I've done this, I've sat with my family. I don't see the point. I was like people who are successful also suffering and like dealing with so much shit, people who are struggling to like make ends meet and struggling to sort of they're all everyone. No one seems truly happy. What is going on, and that was my reason. I just didn't understand what I was supposed to be doing in this life and especially because you're so young as well yeah, 15, 16 year old.
Speaker 2:So I was seeing so much injustice but I just thought there was nothing that could be done and I was like I don't want to do this anymore. But that was coupled with really severe mental health issues Like that. Feeling alone shouldn't warrant that. But I was like I needed help. I needed good psychological support, I needed people to sit and understand and I just needed like support and I think this is why I talk about it, because we are so silent about it.
Speaker 2:We're all silently suffering and silently navigating these things, and if we just talked about it we would feel less alone correct yeah and so I was 16.
Speaker 2:Then I'm 26 now, in the last 10 years, the amount of people that have messaged on social media, for example on Instagram, to say thank you for talking about it I am also dealing with this siblings of friends who would not even tell their sibling, feeling comfortable enough to message, because if we don't talk about it and we keep it inside, we're just going to keep hiding it and it doesn't solve anything. We shouldn't feel alone, because we're not alone. What I realized is what I was feeling. So many other people were feeling, but I felt like I was the only person in the world that felt like that and therefore I didn't see a way out.
Speaker 1:This is exactly what happens with people who don't talk the problem out.
Speaker 2:It's important to share and and I saw a psychologist for five and a half years like a psychiatrist. I've tried medicine, I've done lots of talking because I had to process so many things and now the reason I feel so much, so much more better, can manage all these different things and also truly take care of my mental health, is because I've built those systems. I've got processes.
Speaker 2:I have things that I do. I can notice when things are getting bad and I can support myself, and now I'm really lucky to be able to also feel like I can support other people yes yeah, and speak about it, and talk about it with in terms of what can be done and it's very important.
Speaker 1:Mental health is so important to be able to do anything and the right support. If you do not have right support, it can go downhill right and in our community, we don't talk about it it's yeah
Speaker 2:and like, at least with young people like my, our age, we have the words, we talk about it. But I always think about older generations who are also struggling, but aren't they? They have no way to speak about it. So by us speaking about it and us being open about our feelings and not just saying, okay, she's happy, so how can she have mental health issues? But actually speaking about it, like with body image being like, okay, being thin isn't the best thing if your mental health is sacrificed for it we're also empowering our elders in our community to be honest about their feelings yeah, yeah so we're all learning together and I
Speaker 1:think if we keep talking about it, we keep making people feel less alone yes, yes, okay, I'm gonna switch to a little bit of out of this serious stuff and I want to ask you something. Yeah, so for the people who know you on social media and Instagram, they know you for what you are. Yeah, what is the one thing that they don't know?
Speaker 2:oh, I don't talk about this a lot, okay, but I call myself also a full-time older sister and a full-time older sister of triplets whoa triplets and to anyone listening, that was the genesis of my trust issues. So when I was a six-year-old, all my friends had siblings yeah. I really wanted a sibling. I wish I could go back in time. I'm joking with my siblings are listening.
Speaker 2:I am joking, but I begged my parents for a sibling yeah and they were like okay, we'll give you what you want, because you're an only child and you don't take no for an answer. And my mom got pregnant and for nine months she was just getting bigger and bigger, and bigger and bigger and I was like whoa pregnant women are huge.
Speaker 1:Like why is she so big?
Speaker 2:yeah, um like bigger and bigger and bigger and I was like, whoa, pregnant women are huge. Like why is she so big? She's tiny and like she had like a thing to like help her reach the table. And then I went to the hospital. Priyanka as a six-year-old this was in London Went to the hospital and I get to the hospital and I see my baby brother and I'm like, oh, my God, I've got a brother. This is so exciting. And the nurse comes up to me and goes do you?
Speaker 2:want to see your sister Okay, and I was like this has to be a joke, Like this cannot be real. So then I walk across and see my sister and then she comes up to me and she goes, do you? Want to see your other brother, whoa. Like I am brown, I love a sale, right, but this was the worst.
Speaker 2:buy two, get one free, like buy one get two free, and so I got to the hospital sitting in the front seat of the car. I left in the boot because there were three car seats. My parents and I was in the boot, so I was an only child and now there's triplets. I am so proud of them, like they're incredible young people. Now they're 21, yeah, but my entire life I was the triplet sister. Yeah, and I don't talk about it a lot, but I think me wanting to help and fix the world. I think so much of it also comes from being that person, growing up like the one that held everything and kind of did stuff for my family and took care of my siblings and supported them, even though I don't think they'll agree. Okay.
Speaker 1:Probably there's some kind of not so true about it.
Speaker 2:I don't know, but when they're applying for jobs or internships. I'm proofreading three different cover letters looking at different essays. I'm a full-time secretary to the three of them.
Speaker 1:I can feel you. I'm their sister as well. Okay, so you're a Gen Z girl and I'm not. I'm a millennial. So teach me some Gen Z language, dude, I was watching this reel and this girl was talking. She's a millennial, so she was saying this one of the interns said no cap or something. I was searching the whole room for a cap or something and I'm like dude, this is going proof.
Speaker 2:So yeah, teach me some. I'll give you an easy one and then add on to it okay, okay.
Speaker 1:So what am?
Speaker 2:I supposed to guess I'll get. I'll tell you a word and you're gonna figure out what it means. Oh my god, don't kill me. Okay, what is aura?
Speaker 1:aura, it's probably uh.
Speaker 2:Aura is your demeanor or something yeah, so like your vibe, how you like what. What your vibe is right. What's aura farming?
Speaker 1:spreading positivity, sort of thing, spreading your aura farming. Yeah, okay, so you are putting your thoughts into somebody and you're plowing it for seeds.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, is that so? Aura farming is when you try really hard to like. You like essentially trying hard to like be, look pretty, to act as like to be a wannabe. Yeah, kind of like you're wannabe, exactly, but like you're trying hard, so you're farming aura. Try like you're putting you're building seeds and stuff to like build your aura okay, okay, whoa yeah, right and like and you use it normally yeah, like someone's trying to be, like she's aura farming oh my god, that sounded like such a positive word, but it's not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so mean, I'm scared of gen z, it's so mean, like I think it's actually so mean.
Speaker 2:I don't really believe in that. I think we should be shining our light, oh gosh, but gen z can be brutal with some of the stuff that they say, right, um, I'm scared, yeah, like a little bit scared too, and I think because I'm a little bit older, so I'm not like. My siblings are like true gen z Also, you know what chat is Chat? I'm going to ask chat Chat, not talking Chat GPT. Okay, ai has infiltrated our souls, right? So my sister was like I'm going to ask chat.
Speaker 1:Is it a pet name to chat GPT?
Speaker 2:Okay, good to know. Yeah, we're here. This is where we're at right now.
Speaker 1:I know Delulu it's not the Salulu.
Speaker 2:What Delulu is not the Salulu. It's being delusional is not the solution.
Speaker 1:Solution.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay. But you've got to be Delulu, you've got to believe in yourself.
Speaker 1:By being delusional yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, because you've got to show up the way you want to show up, and it is the solution.
Speaker 1:Right, okay, have I stressed you out a bit? I have.
Speaker 2:Yeah or maybe not. You'll be wearing a pair of jorts, a little crop top and a bum bag. So when you pick up your son from school, gen Z mum no, because you'd be aura farming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, my God, I can't speak the language.
Speaker 2:My mum finds it really funny that digital cameras are back. Okay, so we've gone the full cycle of incredible quality on iPhones to now, like Gen Z, getting their old like their parents' old cameras and using digital cameras again.
Speaker 1:They are Okay, and what do they get out of it?
Speaker 2:Like the old vibe, yeah, and like sometimes digital cameras are that kind of lighting on the pictures and stuff. Yeah, Cool.
Speaker 1:So we're going back in time with women's rights and clothes and all of it.
Speaker 2:So I learned aura farming, delulu and solulu and what was the other one?
Speaker 1:um, aura the jots, jots, jean shorts. Oh my god, jean shots are called as jots. Okay, good to know. Thank you for teaching me some Gen Z language. It's hard to follow, but I'd rather stick to normal language.
Speaker 2:I feel like I'm a millennial Gen Z in the middle, like I'm 98, so I'm on the cusp. Good, good, she's good for me as well. That's comforting.
Speaker 1:Okay, so before we wrap up, can you share some wise words, words of wisdom for the South Asian girls? I don't know if I have words of wisdom, but something, because we want somebody breaking barriers, like you are, so.
Speaker 2:I think something that I really believe in is you have a calling for a reason. So for a very long time I was like okay, I'm passionate about these things, but I need to do this because this is what society and my parents and people expected me. But you have a calling for a reason and you are doing a disservice to yourself, to the world, to everyone around you if you don't follow that calling in whatever capacity. It doesn't have to be your full-time job, we don't have to monetize everything. But if you have something that you're passionate about, follow it, no matter what it looks like to people, and, I think, especially young girls. We censor ourselves so much. We change the way we act, we minimize ourselves because we're worried about what boys will think about us, and I truly say this from like.
Speaker 2:I want to screen this being like de-sentiment. Focus on yourself, focus on your female friendships, focus on how incredible you are as a person, without expecting any person with any romantic partner, including men, to validate that. You don't need validation to be an incredible person, because you bloom and the birds and the bees and everything will come, but you just need to grow as a person, and I think there's been so much in our community. We're so focused on people think about us that we don't do things that we truly believe in. I always say go for it. If you have an idea, it's there for a reason. Truly believe in yourself, work hard. You have to work hard. Things aren't just going to come and fall at your doorstep your feet without working hard. But follow your dreams and speak your truth like. Be authentic, don't lose your integrity, don't lose your values for it. Speak your truth, but be powerful, because we have so much power, we don't need to be empowered.
Speaker 1:It's there, we just need to do it it was indeed a powerful chat with you, um lovely to have you on the show. I really enjoyed the whole journey, your journey, knowing you, some of the elements I did not know from your social media or anything. So that's really good to know you and thanks for joining us. Thank you us on the show, thank you. Thank you for watching this episode with us. This is your host, priyanka, signing off until next episode.
