Brown Queen Diaries
Welcome to the Brown Queen Diaries, a podcast that celebrates the diverse experiences of women of color. Join us as we explore personal stories, cultural heritage, and the challenges and triumphs of navigating life as a brown queen. Each episode features insightful conversations with inspiring guests, touching on topics like identity, empowerment, wellness, and creativity. Whether you're seeking inspiration or connection, our community is here to uplift and empower you. Tune in and embrace your inner queen!
Brown Queen Diaries
More Than Just News: The Reality of Being a Journalist
Guest: Angelica Silva
When Angelica told people she wanted to pursue journalism, the response was often disbelief. "Why would you pick a career where you'll make no money?" they'd ask. As a South Asian Australian woman, she was expected to follow what she calls the "golden triangle" – medicine, law, or engineering – the only careers many deemed worthy of pursuit.
Today, Angelica stands firmly in her decision as an accomplished ABC journalist specializing in stories about the South Asian diaspora in Australia. In this captivating conversation, she reveals how cultural expectations shaped her early self-doubt and how finding her voice as a storyteller transformed not just her career, but her understanding of success itself.
"Success to me isn't how much money I make," she explains. "It's how meaningful my work is, how much it resonates with someone, whether it's making change." This perspective powers her groundbreaking reporting on issues affecting South Asian Australians – from women's health taboos to financial dynamics in relationships that challenge traditional gender roles.
Born in Australia to parents of Indian origin from Singapore, Angelica navigates complex cultural waters both personally and professionally. Her work exposes critical gaps in media representation, like her recent investigation into why South Asian women have the lowest cancer screening rates in Australia. Behind her success lies a stark reality: journalism isn't the glamorous career outsiders imagine. She details the grueling shift work, emotional toll of verifying distressing content, and constant pressure of public scrutiny.
For aspiring journalists from minority backgrounds, Angelica's journey offers powerful guidance: network relentlessly, seek mentors, develop thick skin against criticism, and remember your purpose. "You can't be what you can't see," she emphasizes, underscoring why diverse voices in media matter. Whether you're considering an unconventional career path or seeking authentic stories about multicultural Australia, this conversation will leave you inspired to challenge expectations and tell the stories that truly matter.
Brown Queen Diaries by Priyanka Nomula
Directed by Sandeep Raj
Presented by Aussie Talkies
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Welcome to Brown Queen Diaries, season 2. This is the platform where we celebrate fearless South Asian women who are breaking barriers, redefining success and carving their paths to create an impact. Today's guest is an inspiring journalist from ABC who is making waves in the world of journalism. She's a journalist who reports on multiple issues, including the matters affecting South Asian diaspora. So please welcome Angelica. Welcome to the show, angelica. How are you?
Speaker 2:Thanks so much, Priya. I'm well. Thanks, how are you going?
Speaker 1:Pleasure is ours, and so we'll get started from the introduction. So tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2:Yes, so I am currently a journalist.
Speaker 2:I'm with ABC News and I've been with ABC for almost three years now and I'm working in the Asia-Pacific newsroom.
Speaker 2:So that means I'm covering a lot of events and issues going on in the Asia-Pacific region, but I would say the core of my work is the South Asian diaspora.
Speaker 2:So I'm really focusing on a lot of topics and issues that are affecting South Asians currently living in Australia that are children of immigrants as well, and the reason for that is because issues like politics, finance, health they affect us so differently to the larger population in Australia, and that's really because of the cultural values that we've been raised with and a lot of the differences that we see just in our day-to-day just from being at home with our parents. So we're really affected by those issues so differently. And that's really what I'm trying to uncover in my work, which is to show why do these issues affect us differently, whether it's money, healthcare, the environment, even elections. So, yeah, it's really focusing on the diaspora in Australia and just really giving them a platform and a voice for them to speak up about these issues, and I was sort of like to think of it's me holding up a mirror to the South.
Speaker 2:Asian community and which can be quite confronting, so allowing them to see some of the issues that go on in the community and ask themselves why is this happening and how can we stop this?
Speaker 1:why is this happening and how can we stop this? That's lovely, and you basically cover South Asian stories on your professional side, so tell us a little bit about your personal side as well. I would like to know what you do on the personal front.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think for me, I was, yeah, born in Australia. I was born in Brisbane and my parents are from Singapore. They're of Indian origin. So I've kind of grown up with a lot of confusion around how to answer the question where are you from? Like many of us do, and it's really because I've got parents from two different countries. They speak two different languages as well and raise their kids in Australia. So it was very confusing, I think. Think for me, you know, going to high school in Brisbane being surrounded by majority of white Australian women trying to navigate. You know, what is my culture? What am I celebrating? What can I celebrate? Asking a lot of those questions really early on.
Speaker 2:So I think for me personally, it was really important to bring that out in my journalism and in my work because at the time when I first started I didn't really see a lot of articles or other journalists talking about coming from parents from two different countries and how they navigate that, how they navigate one speaking a different language to their parent or not being, you know, not learning the language at all. So a lot of that is my own personal lived experiences that I think I wanted to just take into my work. So, personally, I really enjoy I think of myself as kind of an ambivert, so someone who's in the middle of being quite introverted and extroverted.
Speaker 2:I, I would call myself that yeah, it depends on their groups of people that I'm with yes, 100%, because that's where I really believe you get your energy from and I feel like that's how comfortable you feel surrounding where the people are with you. So for me, when I'm not with friends, I really do cherish and value my alone time, which is sitting in my room with a candle reading a good book.
Speaker 2:I love to read a lot of like fantasy, rom-coms, like any kind of books that are trending as well, really getting on those and I think, yeah, it's that I really value that personal time because for so many years I have made work my life and it has been very difficult to switch off. And I think, for someone who is in the public eye as well, you know your name is attached to the work that goes out. I've got my name attached to my articles online as well and on videos that I'm on. So it is quite strange to see yourself out there in the world and to not really take that break. So it's a good reminder to me that I need to kind of tap back into those hobbies and those things that make me feel grounded, which is something as simple as reading a book. Really enjoy hiking with my partner we do a lot of travel together.
Speaker 2:We just went to Tasmania and it sort of just became a hiking holiday for us lovely yeah we're just in the middle of these, like amazing landscapes and mountains in a cabin, just so off-grid, and so that again was a really good reminder of why I need to keep that stuff up and not just focus on work all the time.
Speaker 1:Lovely. So journalism is basically a very unconventional, you know profession when it comes to South Asians, right, yes, so was there any backlash from the family or friends?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was really lucky that my parents have always been supportive of my career in journalism and they had always given myself and my older sister that independence to choose our own careers and, you know, gave us that trust to see it through. So I was really you was really quite lucky that they had always stood by me. A lot of the backlash and the criticism actually came from extended family and oftentimes friends, of friends that I would meet at parties or at events, and I think that was probably the most surprising thing where I would get comments from you know, judgmental aunties and uncles who would say things like oh, journalism is a dying industry, like, what are you going to do with that career?
Speaker 2:or things like you're going to make no money, why would you pick a career in journalism like? What does that even mean?
Speaker 1:it's surprising they think like that, because news is news, is always going to be there. How is it a dying um career, right I?
Speaker 2:know. I think in some part of them they're thinking when they hear journalism, they think print journalism immediately they think of, you know, the typewriter, the newspapers.
Speaker 2:They think very old school journalism, but it's like you said, it's 24 7, it's online. It's like you said, it's 24, seven, it's online, it's all digital now. So maybe there is, I think, in that generation gap. They're not thinking about it in that way. So a lot of those comments are coming from a place where they just don't understand the profession very well. They could be quite sceptical of it and so they're saying things like you know's unreliable, there's no money, there's job cuts all the time.
Speaker 2:But I think what surprises me the most is when I hear those comments from people my age, you know, from people. That's surprising. Yeah, people in their 20s yeah, because I think I do think of myself in this bubble sometimes, where any person I meet that's, you know, in their 20s and 30s is going to be immediately open-minded and, you know, respond so well to anything. But yeah, there's been quite a few times where if I've been out at a friend's party or an event and I'm meeting their friends and they'll come up and say what do you do for work or what do you do for a living, and I'll say I'm a journalist.
Speaker 2:They'll be like what are you doing for a living? And I'll say I'm a journalist. They'll be like what are you doing? Why would you pick journalism? They'd say things like oh, so you picked a career where you're going to get no money? Then, yeah, that's what I would notice. They would jump straight to my income, to money, to my salary, and straightaway question it and act like that was you know the most important thing in the world. And they'd say, oh, you're in journalism, I'm so sorry you're not going to make any money then.
Speaker 2:And so it's very jarring to hear those kind of responses and a lot of the time you don't really know how to react and there is no right way to react. You don't really know how to react and there is no right way to react. So over the years I've just sort of learned to try and make it into like a funny comment and have like a cheeky remark back to them. So if someone ever told me now, oh, you're in journalism, well, you're going to make no money, then then I would just say back to them oh, what do you do? You're an engineer. Did mum and dad pick that career for you? Because that is the reality, I had to really tell myself so many people who had that criticism of my job were in careers that their mom and dad had picked for them and laid out for them, especially salvation right, yes, the the career options of you know, study options that you have is either engineering, doctor or lawyer.
Speaker 1:These are like the top things. And then anything on anything that is on top of that or something other than that is like um, they couldn't make it, so they are choosing that, so that's exactly what you said.
Speaker 2:I like to call it the golden triangle, so it's yep medicine law and engineering. So it's medicine, law and engineering and it's what you said. It's where a lot of South Asian parents believe that those are the only career options that their child should have to be successful in life, and that definition of success for a lot of South Asian families is so incredibly fixed. Success to them means how much money are you going to make?
Speaker 2:How many properties do you own? What type of car do you drive, how big is your home? And so it took me years of reframing that mindset, because when that's what you're growing up around and you're receiving that criticism, it can be really easy to fall into that mindset of you know what. Maybe what I'm doing isn't going to make me successful, Maybe I'm not going to make enough money. So I've really had to train myself to believe that. Look, success does not equal how much money I make. Success is how meaningful my work is, how much my work is resonating with someone, with the community, Whether my work is making change. That's what success is that's.
Speaker 1:That's so true, like if you don't have heart into what you're doing, you cannot be 100% right? Yeah, not, someone else cannot decide of like. You know what you want to be in your life.
Speaker 2:If you decide that you would give you 100% to keep with it, and you know that passion is always there exactly it's 100% your choice, so that's amazing and it's like my response now to people, yeah, who do tell me that is are you saying I'm gonna take financial, career life advice from somebody whose mom and dad picked their career for them? It's so funny to me like I'm gonna take advice from someone who has no autonomy over their decisions in life.
Speaker 1:Tell me what it means to be successful, like yeah, so, um, we spoke about the family, um friend's opinion on that, but I want to know why you picked journalist as your career. I mean, we're all teenagers when we are going into our you know choosing our profession right. So you have to be really strong will to actually say, hey, this is where my passion is right. So tell us about your story. Yeah, picking that.
Speaker 2:It's a good question. So for me, picking journalism didn't look like eight year old Angelica, always wanting to be in front of a camera holding a microphone, you know, screaming. I'm going to be a journalist when I grow up. Journalism wasn't even the first degree that I actually started studying in university. I started uni and picked international relations. The only reason I picked that degree was because my older sister also studied it and, like you said, you're a teenager. You're, you know, just coming off 17, 18 and you have no idea what it is you want to do for the rest of your life. Nobody does. And so I remember thinking I'll pick international relations, because I watched my sister study it and then make a career out of it for herself in government, and so I sort of thought to myself okay, I'll give it a try, see how I like it and maybe just stick with it, because I really don't know what else I'm going to pick.
Speaker 2:So around my first year mark when I was studying, that's when I really could tell my heart wasn't in it. This wasn't something that was passionate to me. I didn't feel a sense of reward from studying it. I couldn't also see a clear picture of what I wanted to do with this degree when I graduated. What would a career in this degree even look like, where I could make meaningful change or do something that matters, because that's what I've always known I wanted to do from a young age?
Speaker 2:which was to make some type of change in the world, and so I started kind of having a crisis in my first year of uni. You know, I was performing really badly in my classes. I had so much disinterest in what I was learning, became really fatigued with just even going to university. Really falling into this slump, feeling like I didn't know myself, didn't have an identity, wasn't even sure what my interests were, what my hobbies were, was just sort of moulding myself around the people around me and trying to fit in with them. The people around me and trying to fit in with them. So I really started to think around the midway point of my first year of uni and I thought back to when I was a child and how much I loved writing and it would just be such small things like writing short stories, writing poems, things that were just so small, silly and personal and just for myself to see.
Speaker 2:But I sort of told myself there's a theme there, which is that I have a love for storytelling.
Speaker 2:Maybe I can do something with this, maybe I can take that love for storytelling and put it into a career where writing is the crux of it, but also things like filming and photography, interviewing people, skills, field work as well. All of that rolled into one which was so scary and exciting to me at the same time, because I had never even considered journalism. And so that's when I decided I'm going to make the switch. I'm going to drop international relations, make the change to journalism, and it's probably one of the best decisions I ever made, because I never looked back. As soon as I made that switch, I immediately got out of this slump and started waking up, excited to go to my classes and excited to put work out into the world again. And so around that time I was still studying journalism work out into the world again. And so around that time I was still studying journalism, I was looking at publications of where I could pitch some work to and maybe just have my first go at writing an article.
Speaker 2:So the first ever article I ever had published was for a publication called Brown Girl Magazine and they're based in the, all run by amazing brown women based out of New York and LA, super talented ladies, and so I wrote an article for them about my experience studying journalism in the South Asian community.
Speaker 2:how that was seen as so unconventional so strange to so many people and how I use that to break those barriers and to show people. If you study something that's outside of that golden triangle, you will be rewarded for it, because what you're doing is trusting your gut, and you won't have to see the success which is monetary value.
Speaker 2:It will be so much more than that. So I had that article published, thinking not really anything would come about it. This was my first article I was you know it was unpaid, I wasn't paid would come about it. This was my first article I was you know it was unpaid, I wasn't paid anything to write it. It was sort of like freelancing for free. So I had that article go up and I just remember sharing it like on my Instagram and didn't really think much of it the next day. I remember my Instagram, my email, my messenger inbox All these messages.
Speaker 2:Yes of strangers, women that I had never met before, women that weren't only in Australia, women from the US, from India, from Europe, reaching out to me saying they had read this article on Brown Girl magazine about choosing a career that was so left field for the South Asian community that made them feel quite insecure because it wasn't in the golden triangle, but they were going to stick with it anyway. Just so many responses from women being like.
Speaker 2:I have never seen an article written about this from a first person view and from a woman who's going through the same thing and a lot of them were thanking me for writing that article and saying that it's something they want to point their parents and their friends towards to read. So seeing that response so quickly to this article that I remember thinking wouldn't really do much for anything in the world. It was just really for me at the time to vent a lot of my thoughts and frustrations and how I was feeling.
Speaker 2:Seeing that response I remember is when I had that shift in my mindset go, this is what will be my career yeah, this is what I'm going to make my job out of, and it's writing articles like these for this community, for that diaspora who don't see themselves at all in the media, whether that's they don't see their names sounding similar in the bylines they don't see women that look like them on TV, on social media. This is what I'm going to make my job.
Speaker 1:Impressive Because we don't usually talk about it. But there is a need. This is happening everywhere, right? That's why the golden triangle that you were talking about, so so many of Indians. You'll see them as engineers or civil services or something that's very prominent again. It all, it all, ties around. What you said is what is the definition of the success? Right, passion does not actually fit into that success for most South Asians. Let's just say that. But it's wonderful that you have written all about it very nicely. And you know, self-realization is also so important. Right At that age you thought, hey, I'm not fitting into this international representation or international relations, so I don't fit into this role.
Speaker 1:So I have to you know now reachable and probably look at what I want to do and then switching that to what you want to do is amazing story. Not everybody gets that chance as well. Like, even if they want to, they don't do that, they don't make that decision, or I've already, I've already stepped into it, so I might as well just go with it, right? Yeah, so that's a good calling.
Speaker 2:Thank, you for you, yeah.
Speaker 1:So how many years has it been since you started your journalism career?
Speaker 2:so I think it's been about five years now. Yeah, that's since I. Yeah, since I graduated, so, and it's been you know such a yeah that's since I yeah, since I graduated, so, and it's been. You know such a mix. It's not like I've just been working for ABC. You know, I worked in a magazine before which was a beauty and fashion magazine.
Speaker 2:So, again, very different to what I'm doing now. Before the magazine I was just freelancing, so I was pitching articles to so many different publications and I think that I really enjoyed that range that I got to have so early on, where one day I could be writing an article about refugees that were being kept in Brisbane for Al Jazeera. The next day I could be writing a beauty article for Refinery29.
Speaker 1:So, being able A variety of topics. You have to switch your brain.
Speaker 2:Yes, you really do, you really do have to switch your brain, your writing styles and just your knowledge of those topics so quickly. And so that being a freelancer so early on in my career, I really believe, is what has made me so proactive right now and such a go-getter, because I will go after any opportunity and I won't be insecure about it as I used to be when I was in university. Because now when I look at an opportunity, I will say to myself I deserve that yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm going to work towards that, because why shouldn't I?
Speaker 1:and it, and it's such a shift, absolutely so tell us a little bit about your you know wonderful articles. One of the highlights, or some of your highlights, let's just say memorable articles that you've worked on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a lot of the memorable ones for me that have really been rewarding are my articles on women's health, especially women in the South Asian community. I've just written an article that's actually going up next week, which is about how South Asian women actually have the lowest rates of cancer screening in Australia, meaning South Asian women are the least likely amongst all of Australia's population to go and get their cancer screening test done, so whether that's the cervical cancer test or even a mammogram once they've got into the age where they can do that. So I've wrote this article about. You know why does this happen?
Speaker 2:Why are South Asian women so reluctant to go and get this cancer testing. It's also it was a huge mirror up to myself, because I very much fall into that category of look. I'm 27 now I still haven't done my cervical cancer testing, for all of the same reasons that I delve into in that article, which is there's a lot of stigma and shame. Talking about women's health still feels so taboo in South Asian households. You know from a young age, even when you first get your period as a woman, it's something that is so hush-hush in the households.
Speaker 2:I didn't even get, you know, like many South Asian women, the period talk from. You know my mom. I remember getting my period and just her sort of handing me a pad and being like this is what will take care of it, never getting any sort of communication there's no educational side of things, right?
Speaker 1:no education. There's no alarming that you know you're. You're going to be 13 soon and this might happen.
Speaker 2:There's no education tell me about it, it's just they really throw you into it and they just sort of expect you to play catch up and that you're just suddenly, when you turn 13, you're going to understand how your body works and everything to do with being a woman, and suddenly everything changes as well.
Speaker 1:Like you should be this, you should be that, and all of these rules set against you exactly.
Speaker 2:It's such a confusing time, especially for a woman in that community, where those types of topics are just brushed under the rug so many times because there's so much embarrassment and shame around it still, and so it was really eye opening to see that that same type of shame was still persisting in women who were past 13 years old. You know they've already got their periods and now they're trying to deal with, you know, getting testing and screening for, you know, cancer, and it really showed me that the way that South Asians think about health is very warped compared to the majority of the population here, especially especially when it comes to preventing things happening to us. We only go see a doctor if something is wrong with us, especially if it's physical, if we can see it if other people can comment on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's very reactive rather than proactive.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:We don't necessarily prioritise health number one and there's obviously the shame factors to it. So how did the article go?
Speaker 2:So it was very, very eye-opening. I think it was quite heavy for me to do, because I spoke to a woman who was in her 30s and actually lost her mum to cancer. So her mum died of breast cancer. So her mom died of breast cancer and she explained to me that, look, I have all of the evidence to go and get my cancer testing done, given my mom passed away from it.
Speaker 2:But I'm still not going to do it because I'm terrified and I'm so uncomfortable to be alone inside a GP's office in a clinic where things feel so sterile and cold. So she explained to me that you know she's 30 now you get your first letter to go and get your cervical cancer test at 25. So five years have passed and she is still telling me I'm not planning on getting it anytime soon because I'm so afraid. And even if I had a friend go with me I probably still wouldn't want to go, despite watching her mom pass away from cancer.
Speaker 2:So, you know, it was really heavy to see that that is what is going on in some pockets of the South Asian community, but the way that I really wanted to end the article was to make it a solutions-based angle, which was to show, okay, why is this happening? And it's because of so many reasons that we spoke about stigma, language barriers, priorities in like your life, and so what are the ways that we can fix that? What are the solutions? And so a lot of it really came down to making sure messaging in hospitals and around cancer research is culturally sensitive and culturally appropriate, and so it was a very eye-opening article, but it's definitely one that I'm going to remember the most, given that I have multiple family members who have dealt with cancer myself. I'm also someone who still hasn't gone and done my own cancer screening, so it was very eye-opening for that, but, I think, a very important topic for me to talk about another article about women's health.
Speaker 2:That I felt quite proud of was I wrote this article about South Asian women who have endometriosis and were experiencing one of the symptoms of it, especially stage four or five endo, which is infertility.
Speaker 2:So I spoke to south asian women who were having a lot of pressure from their family to have kids but because of their condition with endo that was preventing them from having children or was causing a lot of issues in their body to bear children in the first place, and how their family members just could not understand that they thought of endometriosis as something that a doctor had just said to them or just thrown around and told them, you know don't take it too seriously, almost treating as if endo was a common cold I feel like this is one of the most important things that have that has not been spoken about or there's no awareness much, or like this hush-hush around it.
Speaker 1:Also, people don't believe in it, right. So there's multiple factors to it, but a lot of the girls that have those symptoms feel like they're just kind of like alone in that boat. Having that kind of articles and multiple speak women speak about it is something, like you know, comforting for the girls women facing that issue as well.
Speaker 2:So how was it?
Speaker 1:Was it taken well? Did you get a good feedback for this as well?
Speaker 2:It was taken. Well, it was like you said. Those women who I spoke to, and the women that were reading the article, said they thought they were the only ones experiencing this, and they would say things like I have pressure from my kids or from from my parents or from my in-laws to give them grandchildren, but I'm dealing with this condition that is preventing that, and they believe that no one else could understand how they felt so a lot of the response, was very thankful for covering it, because it's again such a niche you know, women's health issue in the South Asian community where, for all of the reasons we discuss, you know that shame, that stigma, that feeling of embarrassment and not living up to standards, which is being able to have your own family.
Speaker 2:There's so much pressure on that already, as a woman in you know South Asia, so the response was it was quite heavy, I think a lot of women coming forward saying that they're also experiencing this and it was still an ongoing issue for them. But then that experience of you know, gratitude for seeing their stories and their voices on national media yeah so a lot of those stories on women's health for me, you know, really resonate to me yeah
Speaker 2:but another one that is, you know, quite different is an article about finance, and this article is about women earning more than their male partners in their relationships.
Speaker 2:And I was so excited about this article because I actually got to interview Devni Vihara, who is a Sri Lankan lawyer and content creator. I only recently met her in Melbourne and she was a huge part of this article where she explained to me that, because she earns more in her salary as a lawyer than her partner, she had received a lot of backlash from family members and even sometimes friends back home, saying things like that's not right. Men should be the one to make the money in the family and men should be the breadwinner. It shouldn't be you. He needs to take care of you. And so Devani wasn't the only woman that I spoke to experiencing that. I spoke to two other women who had very similar stories about how their partners in-laws felt really threatened by them and by their ability to make more money and their income, and they would say things like you need to stop embarrassing my son. You need to make sure that he is the one you know providing for you and making you look good.
Speaker 1:It shouldn't be the other way around it's a very unspoken kind of a topic, right, but people know it and it's got different angles to it, like you said. Like there's people side of the things which is out of the couple, yeah, and then there's actual sometimes men have their ego going on if the girl's earning a lot, right. So there's multiple factors to it it's a very interesting article.
Speaker 2:I should go and read it the ego is a very big point because you know the men saying and feeling that way are just insecure they're so insecure about this woman who's their partner, by the way, they're in union together and they're supporting each other.
Speaker 2:They're so insecure and threatened that a woman could, is capable of earning more money than them, and they're seeing it as a competition. They're seeing it with these very traditional gender norms, which is that because I'm the man, I need to provide for you and I need to be the breadwinner. We're not in the 1960s anymore, it's 2025, and so to see that that was still happening was again just so shocking and eye-opening. But I think, as always with my articles, the end result is what can we do about it? We're raising awareness. How can women talk about this issue with their partners and how can men see this issue in a different light?
Speaker 1:so that's always the goal. All three articles are amazing. I'm sure you've done really good articles. Other articles, I think these are your, like you know, proud of proud moment articles, let's just say so. There's this article, um, kind of a definition of what you're covering, but there's an angle of South Asian diaspora into each one of them, which gives a completely different perspective, right? So it's interesting and really good to know that. Thank you, okay, so we spoke about some of the best articles that you worked on and all the glamorous bits. Right, there's always challenges when it comes to work, so share some challenges that you go. You go through day in and out as a journalist.
Speaker 2:I think one of the biggest challenges is how heavy the material you're consuming and reporting on as a journalist can be you know, going into work each day.
Speaker 2:It's not that you just get to immediately sit down and start writing an article about any topic that you want to do. That's probably, you know, only 10% of the job. You know the other is having to come into work and you know, see what's happening in the news. A lot of the time it is very dark. It's to do with war, especially with what's happening right now. It's a lot of heavy topics and images that you're being exposed to as a journalist.
Speaker 2:So a lot of our work has to do with verification. We're verifying a lot of photos and videos and pieces of information that are sent to us or that come through us and we're having to make a decision whether that is an accurate photo or video. Is it really coming from this country? Is it really happening right now? So you're using a lot of software and geo mapping tools to kind of figure those things out. So you know there are days where I'll come into work and a lot of the videos that I'll have to watch, based on current events and what's happening, you know, with Gaza, lebanon, israel, watching videos of, you know, children with bombs going off in the backgrounds. A lot of the time those videos are completely uncensored because you're being sent the fresh you know like uncensored version before you've made any changes to it, before it goes out on your end.
Speaker 2:So, you're having to sit and watch a lot of you know topics and themes and images that are really quite sensitive and heavy and can be very difficult to process in the moment. I think that's a side of journalism you know people can forget because, again, a lot of journalism it looks so glamorous. You know you're seeing journalists on TV with their makeup, you know, dressed so well, all the time in front of a camera, and so I understand how people can see that. You know if they're on camera then that's what they must be doing 24-7. What they don't see is that same journalist back at their desk dressed in a hoodie and sweatpants and, you know, eating two-minute noodles at their desk. Having to sort through all of this vision and footage, having to lug around filming equipment, their microphones, out into the field. Sometimes you know, while being hit with all these elements, whether it's a natural disaster going on. So I think that is definitely a big challenge of journalism, which is that you know it isn't always this glamorous career.
Speaker 1:It sounds like a journey before you get to the end product, right you have to go through this, yeah, different cycles of uh like um stages to get to the um end products exactly.
Speaker 2:We like to call it going through the trenches going going through the trenches yes you are quite literally in the trenches before you're even asked to, you know, do your first TV appearance or get in front of a camera for the first time. You're sitting at that desk and you're doing that shift work where sometimes you know.
Speaker 2:for me that would look like I would start a shift at 5 am and that was to cover the news that had happened overnight in all of these regions where you've got all those time differences happening, so you're catching up on the news, making sure it's ready to go out at 7am Australian time, and so, again, I think that's another challenge of journalism, which is you are like someone working in hospitality, in healthcare. You're doing quite grueling shift work. We've also got a lot of overnight shifts, so that looks like starting at 9 pm and finishing at 4 am the next day. So you know, imagine doing that, as you're nine to five, it's almost like an investigation kind of a work, right you?
Speaker 1:have to get information from different corners, then probably you have to actually take out all the um kind of do you actually take it as it is, or you do a lot of research into whether it is credible information that you can um post or not, that sort of thing definitely there must be some kind of filtration work to that. So much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anything we see, even if it's something like wire copy on Reuters or Associated Press, even though it's coming out through trusted platforms, we're still taking that copy, having to do our own research, talk to our own contacts in the meantime to make sure all of that information you know actually checks out and is verified. Have any of our correspondents in the country that's happening and actually seen that? Were they there at the time? Yeah, it's like you said. You're doing so much cross-checking and a lot of when that's happening is during, you know, overnight hours, and so that's why the shift work can be quite grueling, because your body just physically and mentally is not used to working at that time where you have to clock in to work at 9 pm yeah it's taxing on your body, because your body isn't meant to be working those hours, it's meant to be sleeping.
Speaker 2:So I think, again, that is something people can quite easily forget about journalism, where you do a lot of shift work, it's not glamorous and you're dealing with a lot of heavy material.
Speaker 1:So in a day as a journalist, you go into the office, right, how does your day look like? Many people see it two extreme ways. Let's just say People think of a journalist as somebody who's sitting there and typing the material into the computer, or they'll think that they're in front of the camera, being all glamorous right. So how does your day look like? Just give us a like a life cycle kind of a spin of it yeah, my mornings look like this afternoons, evenings, that sort of thing yeah it's.
Speaker 2:Every single day is extremely different. I'll never have two days that look the same as each other, which is exciting but can also be quite challenging and annoying at times if especially if you just, you know, want to have a slow morning, when you wake up and be able to just enjoy your coffee, but instead you're just go, go, go straight away. So on an average day for me it does look like you know, I'll wake up, I'll walk to my office which has been a huge benefit of moving to Melbourne walk to the office, come in, sit down and sort of catch up on stories for the day that have already been published. So I'm seeing, you know, the major breaking news events that have been published. I think a big thing is, you know, not just reading and consuming news from where I work.
Speaker 2:I'm looking at news publications in different countries all the time I'm looking at international news because I don't just want to be consuming Australian media all the time I want to be looking at how other countries are reporting on issues, what else is happening in those countries.
Speaker 2:So I kind of come in in the morning and that's my big catch up of what's happened overnight. So I'll just sort of sit at my desk, make my tea and just be like scrolling through the front pages and the headlines and seeing you know what's going to be the agenda for the day and do a bit of agenda setting, so mapping out what stories am I going to be working on, what regions am I looking at, and so after that usually it's having a team meeting. So I'll jump in a big meeting with my boss and my colleagues and we'll all be talking about what stories everyone's going to work on. And then you know, from then on it can vary so much.
Speaker 2:I'll either be out in the field with a colleague filming with them We'll both be with like our microphones, have our cameras and everything going out to interview talent in like Melbourne CBD, or out in the suburbs, depending on the story. Other times I could be rushing into a recording booth with my laptop to record a voiceover for a news package that's going out. So that'll just be me in this dark recording booth and you know sitting in there for a while making sure I'm getting everything right. And other times it's yeah, me again running around the office doing some filming, carrying my tripod and my lighting and microphones. You know running all over the place. So again, no, two days are ever the same and it's definitely sounds like a movie to me.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying I'm not taking over the hard work of it, but it it's actually sounding very interesting and glamorous.
Speaker 2:I like that you say that because I think when I first started in journalism, I always wanted my life to look like the Devil Wears Prada which is my favorite movie ever and I always wanted to be, you know, one of the employees there. Like running around and being able to say I work somewhere glamorous like a magazine so in a way it's not too different, it's almost the same.
Speaker 1:To be honest, like that, any tv, any movie that shows a journalist as a main character would show all of these elements yes pretty fascinating yeah, I do agree, it's just.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely a lot less glamorous. Just think of the movie, but with me dressed in sweatpants and sneakers instead of course, sneakers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. So we'll touch base on some of your personal bits, right, like the person side of the things. How about, since you are representing South Asian women and you, you have a background of Indian descent as well your parents from different regions in India? Yes, you said your mum was Malayali.
Speaker 2:So my dad is Malayali, my dad is from Kerala and then my mum is she's Tamil, from Pondicherry.
Speaker 1:Right, and your parents are in Singapore, not in India.
Speaker 2:Yes, so my parents were born and raised in Singapore, but, yeah, they're of Indian origin. So my grandparents and great grandparents. That's where the ties to Kerala and Pondicherry are.
Speaker 2:But yeah, for my parents, you know, india for me never really looked like that second home. That was actually always Singapore to me because I would go back there so much as a kid I would go there once a year. My grandma still lives in Singapore, so Singapore really was my second home. And because that country is so incredibly multicultural, you know you've got three different ethnicities all living together. You've got Chinese, malay and Indians all in one country. It's the most incredible place. I'm sure the food is going to be amazing.
Speaker 1:The food is amazing.
Speaker 2:You just you're so spoiled for choice because you have the pick of those three always, you know, provided to you. But I think at the time, especially when I was younger, it just made me very confused, especially when my parents would say things like you know, we're from Singapore, we grew up there, that's where our family's from, and I would be like but we're brown, like that doesn't make sense, like we have brown skin. You know our origins and our lineage is from India.
Speaker 2:And so I remember just feeling so blank about it, like I never really was in touch with my Indian culture. I never knew what it, you know, looked like to be from these parts of India, and so it's only recently, now that I'm older, that I've started to try and get back in touch with those things again With the cultures.
Speaker 1:Let me test you a little bit. Oh gosh, okay, tell me some. What are the big festivals of Hindus in India?
Speaker 2:So Hinduism is different for me because I was Catholic.
Speaker 1:But, some very big festivals that nobody can. Yeah, give me two.
Speaker 2:Diwali is the biggest one it's too easy. Second one, the second one. I'm so embarrassed to say that I actually don't know. I can't even name a second one.
Speaker 1:Okay, let me give you a hint.
Speaker 2:Please.
Speaker 1:This is a festival where people play with colours.
Speaker 2:Holi.
Speaker 1:Yeah, terrible. Good on you, you're relatable now.
Speaker 2:We made it Diwali and Holi, of course. Yeah, the two biggest ones, yeah, yeah, I think it would be so shocking for people to know I only celebrated my first Diwali two years ago.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So again, I, you know, grew up thinking that I wasn't allowed to celebrate Diwali because my parents were from Singapore and because we, you know, didn't have a lot practices from India, you know, incorporated into my household, into my upgrowing. So I, yeah, genuinely remember thinking I can't celebrate this festival because it feels so, it feels like I'm lying to myself, like I'm not being authentic. And it took having a conversation with a very good friend of mine who said Diwali isn't about that, it's not about you being from India, speaking a language from India, and that suddenly, you know, says you get to celebrate Diwali for those reasons.
Speaker 2:She really reminded me that it's about getting back into your culture. Whatever that looks like to you and it's different for everyone, how can you celebrate bits of your culture in your own way and bring it into your own home? So, yeah, yeah, that chat with her is what really changed it and so, yeah, for the first time, I celebrated it with my Sri Lankan partner's family and they were so excited. So, yeah, we just.
Speaker 1:It was such a nice time there's no right way or wrong way of celebrating a festival. Right, it's just that cultural. You know, elements that we take on, to which you, you know, resonate with, and then you celebrate the way that you want. The main theme of Diwali is like good over evil, so you're basically celebrating that. I kind of. I love my Diwali parties. I just make sure that everybody's involved in that. My husband's a Sri Lankan as well, so I force this onto him and he loves to party, so it's fun, that's great.
Speaker 1:So, just to wrap up, what would your advice be to the young generation that are wanting to step into journalism and that it's not a wrong decision as it is perceived. Probably this generation is better, but you will now be like a role model because you've done many successful articles right. So what would your suggestion be?
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you Free.
Speaker 2:I agree with you that I am very hopeful now of the younger generation having more independence and freedom, hopefully to pick a career like journalism and any other career that again is outside of that triangle because, like you said, there is so much more representation of us in media now.
Speaker 2:You know, you go on to social media, you turn the TV on, you read an article online and so much more. Now you're seeing that women of colour are now the ones in front of the camera writing those articles. So I really believe that you know over the years it's taken, you know such hard work and such a long time. But the younger generation now have a lot more figures to look up to in this industry. Because there's so many more of us now and also because of us being in this industry now, we're so willing to help out younger generations to get into this industry and show them please. You know, come into this industry like, yes, it's got its challenges and it can be grueling at times, but if you are passionate about this work and you want to make a difference, of course we will do anything to help you get here so networking is a huge tip of mine.
Speaker 2:You know mating the right people, putting yourself in rooms where you might not feel comfortable at times or you might be doubting yourself, but just putting yourself out there, being really proactive and getting your name out there. Emailing journalists that was something I did a lot in the beginning of my career. I would sort of cold call and email journalists whose work really resonated with me and who I wanted to learn from, and seek out mentorships. So seek out someone that you look up to ask them about a possible way they could be a mentor to you. So, again, networking, I think, is something I didn't have too much of when I was first starting out, just because of the landscape, and media was a bit different back than to what it is now, but I think a lot of the younger generation have so much at their hands online.
Speaker 2:There's free resources, there's so many ways to upskill, whether it's watching a YouTube video on how to better use filming equipment, how to record yourself so there's just so much more available to them now. I think my biggest advice, though, is you know you do have to have quite thick skin, I think in this industry, you know you're going to be criticized for your work, and not even just your work, but your name, which is attached to your work, and everything that you put out. That will come with criticism and a lot of it isn't going to be very positive, because it's a big world, you're not going to please everyone, and I think it's coming to terms with that's okay, I'm not put on this earth to make every single person happy and be friends with everybody.
Speaker 2:I'm put on this earth to whatever it is that your passion is. For me, it's to make that change in Australia's media. It's to make sure that women can turn on the TV, can read an article and see themselves represented, because I really do believe that you can't be what you can't see. Years ago I didn't see enough of women that looked like me in media and that was why that became a mission for me to fill that gap and so many other women like me. So it's still the same, I think, for the younger generation now. There's still those gaps to be made, for sure.
Speaker 1:It was hard to find someone in that field, for me too. Yes, you were a hard find, so there's still that gap, definitely yeah.
Speaker 2:It's just yeah, it's really like knowing that this is what you want to do and sticking with it and not being afraid of getting that criticism from time to time, but also that criticism from the community, from the judgmental aunties and the uncles that come up to you and say put there, why are you doing?
Speaker 2:this why are you picking a career like journalism where you'll make no money? You need to completely be able to block that out and focus on your craft and your work and remind yourself that I am doing this for me and for none of them. Their opinions should not matter to me, because whatever's going on in their life and whatever insecurities that they have, they're projecting onto me.
Speaker 1:So it's really reminding yourself that you need to just stick with your passion and remind yourself that you're doing this for a reason and it's going to upset some people and that's fine as long as you believe in yourself, that's all that matters that's a great advice and, like you said, the parts are carved for journalism by earlier generations and this generation, so the younger generations have better opportunities as well to look out for, but there's still gaps but, yeah, following your passion should be the driving force behind whatever career they choose, and if it is journalism, then that's the way to go, definitely so.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, and thanks for coming on the show. Thanks for your beautiful advice and good work as well. Um, we should generally, um, I should go and look out for your articles some of those are really interesting. Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2:Brown queen diaries thank you so much. Perry was lovely to be here.
