Brown Queen Diaries
Welcome to the Brown Queen Diaries, a podcast that celebrates the diverse experiences of women of color. Join us as we explore personal stories, cultural heritage, and the challenges and triumphs of navigating life as a brown queen. Each episode features insightful conversations with inspiring guests, touching on topics like identity, empowerment, wellness, and creativity. Whether you're seeking inspiration or connection, our community is here to uplift and empower you. Tune in and embrace your inner queen!
Brown Queen Diaries
Sensuality, Psychology, and Power of Self-Expression
What happens when professional expertise meets creative self-expression? Shailja's story bridges seemingly different worlds – the structured environment of behavioral therapy and the vibrant freedom of dance.
In this powerful conversation, Shailja reveals how childhood experiences of racial bullying forced her to suppress her Indian identity, throwing away her lunch and lowering Bollywood music near school gates to avoid ridicule. This journey from cultural shame to proud self-expression informs both her professional approach and online presence, where she now confidently showcases her heritage through dance videos that celebrate femininity and cultural richness.
As a behavioral therapist working with individuals living with disabilities and mental health challenges, Shailja brings unique insights into human psychology. She takes us behind prison walls where she supports inmates, sharing fascinating details about security protocols and her approach to therapy in these controlled environments. Her perspective on helping people was transformed when a client with schizophrenia challenged the notion that she needed to change to fit society's definition of "normal" – leading Shailja to focus on changing environments rather than "fixing" people.
The contrast between her professional world and social media presence offers valuable lessons in authenticity. While facing criticism for her bold self-expression online, she draws on Buddhist wisdom to handle negativity: "If someone offered you a gift and you say no, whom does that gift belong to?" This philosophy allows her to create content that empowers women without absorbing others' judgment.
Whether you're struggling with cultural identity, wondering how to handle criticism, or looking to express yourself more authentically, Shailja's story reminds us that we don't need to choose between seemingly contradictory aspects of ourselves. By embracing all our dimensions – professional and creative, traditional and bold – we create space for others to do the same.
Guest : Shailaja Joshi
Brown Queen Diaries by Priyanka Nomula
Directed by Sandeep Raj
Presented by Aussie Talkies
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https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPjW_Zw62eWa4QcQNJW3yHw76rlkqGr72&si=zUrI5wzOPV-k1gjE
Today we have a guest who is a behavioral therapist and also somebody who believes in self-expression through sensual dance on social media. She's here to break those misconceptions and challenge those stereotypes and share her journey. Let's welcome incredible Shailja. Welcome to the show, shailja, how are you? I'm good. Thank you, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. The nature is ours. Good to see you on the show. We've spoken about it for a while.
Speaker 2:Yes we have. I think it's such a beautiful platform that you have for all these wonderful women to come out here and share their stories. I love watching it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's amazing. I love the stories, to be honest. I love that, so let's start from the beginning.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'll throw it over to you to introduce yourself. Could you do that? Yeah, of course I always find that question so difficult, you know when someone's like describe yourself, because I feel like we're always evolving, I'm always changing constantly, but I feel like, at this point, I would describe myself as a curious soul. I love exploring, I'm driven by self-expression and spirituality. That's where I am at this journey in my life at the moment. Okay, all about transformation, learning things, discovering who I really am.
Speaker 2:so I'm still in between, I haven't like gathered the words exactly how. I would describe myself. A bit of everything, and I wear so many different hats. You know I'm a behavior therapist, actress, dancer. Then I have my responsibilities as a daughter and a sister, as a friend, as you would know. So many different hats, but I'm trying to embrace all of that. So that's how I describe myself a bit of everything yeah, yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1:That's a nice way of describing yourself. I wouldn't be able to put in one line like that yeah, good how do I describe myself?
Speaker 2:I'm always evolving, my views are always constantly changing and I think we are changing all the time and, yeah, we need to embrace that change as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I'll jump straight into your social media presence. Yeah, so what's your niche that you want to present in social media.
Speaker 2:Obviously, I love Bollywood, so when you go on my page you'll see a lot of Bollywood dancing. So that would be my niche. But I think for me it's just creating a platform where women feel encouraged to be themselves and they embrace all aspects of themselves and they're not shying away from it. I think my page would scream confidence. That's my thing. Be you without judgment, without fear, just be confident. That's. That's the niche of my social media presence. I would say that's what I love putting out there.
Speaker 1:It does show that yes, I'm sure the confidence is that sure that you have to embrace yourself. So what does social media mean to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for me, social media has always been an escape, you know, from the mundane life. When I'm on social media, it allows me to be another person, another persona of mine that I can, you know, get into, and it's just so different and I love it. I am the most happiest behind the camera. That's my joy, that's my happiness. So social media has allowed me to do that. You know, it's an outlet of self-expression for me. I get to be that person that I want to be behind the camera.
Speaker 2:You know, just unapologetically, me, that's what it is so, yes, it's an outlet of expression for me that's what I would say where I can dance and I can just, you know, share that with other people that also connect with that, and also connect with other people that you know are into arts and performing. Yeah, and that's what it means to me that's awesome.
Speaker 1:You know the the thing about you said about fear. Like you know, without fearing, yeah, about judgments, right, yeah, speaking of that, um, you know, even with my own experience, the moment I have to pause something or anything, I'll be like there's a lot of fear that runs into my mind, a lot of thoughts, okay, about different kinds of people, whatever it is, or am I coming across as vain, etc. Right, there's that feeling. And then there's there's the next stage where you actually go over it and win that. Right, yeah, keep that in control. So tell me about it. How did you? Obviously you would have gone through that phase and how did you get over it?
Speaker 2:100%. I think we always do question ourselves constantly. I think everyone does it. I feel like there's no one in this world that wouldn't do it. I think for a second, you might judge yourself before other people judge you. I think that's what happens before we even allow someone else to judge us, we're judging ourselves right, because you're like, oh, what are people going to say? But they haven't even said anything yet. You haven't even posted it yet. I always like to remind myself of how I felt when I was creating the content. How did I feel when I was dancing behind the camera? Why did I even pick up my camera to make that video in the first place? So if that was in your mind and you were driven to do it and just post it, there's a reason why you did it right. It's a reason why I manifested and why you did it. So I always go back to the journey of when I was creating that content and how I felt and why I wanted to do it in the first place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just reminding yourself that never do anything for validation and if you are going to do it for validation, it should be for your own validation, not other people's validation. Yeah, yes, it took me time to learn that. You know I think it's just a process, but if that's what you want to do, then do it. You know you're the author of your own life. Depends in your hand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know you're going to read it at the end and you need to be happy with it yeah, so, yeah, absolutely, and it takes a little bit of courage to actually go through that phase and then finally go to a point where you're very comfortable being yourself, I guess. Yeah, but it's a journey. Everybody who wants to put out themselves. Yeah, in social media 100, um, I mean, there's always this criticism that comes out, especially when you know, like you know, dancers or somebody who's a little bit more out there in terms of breaking the barriers, right, not fitting into that stereotypical persona of women, right, you know, there's always this criticism. Did you face any criticism? And what do you do? Yeah, every day.
Speaker 2:I think social media has its pros and cons, so I am facing them every single day and, honestly, it was quite foreign to me at the beginning because I come from a family of dancers and singers, so we've always embraced it growing up. So in family functions we would be pushed to perform and dance and everyone would be cheering and supporting. So I came from that. Then, when I went on social media, seeing that criticism from the South Asian community specifically, when I'm trying to connect with it more and I'm trying to embrace my culture, it sets you back because it's so unexpected and I'm like why is this happening? And I think there's this association of lack of self-respect with women like myself that put themselves out there that can be seen as confident and bold. People like she has no self-respect if she's posting that or she's attention seeking. You know these are opinions of people that they have.
Speaker 2:When it comes to people like me and anyone like you said that's in the performing industry, there is a lot of criticism and, yes, I was quite taken back by it because I'm like I think it's beautiful when a reel comes up on my page, for instance, right, and it's anyone dancing. I can appreciate that because I'm a dancer myself, you know. I love art, I love creativity. I look at it, I'm like, oh my god, look at her makeup, look at her outfit. This is like perfect, right. And I'm like love it. And then I just scroll and I forget about it. Not for once do I think that, oh, she has no self-respect, as if she posted this because that's just a glimpse of them, that's another persona or facade that they have on social media, that they actually comment that yeah, they do and I get so many messages as well, very demeaning comments, um.
Speaker 2:And then sometimes, obviously, you look at it and you're like comments. And sometimes, obviously, you look at it and you're like why are you thinking like this? And there's a beautiful story that I always remind myself of when it comes to criticism and because I love spirituality, I love reading books and scriptures, and it's from Buddhism. So Buddha is walking in the forest one day, you know, peacefully, and there's a very young angry man that's there and he's yelling all sorts of things, really disrespectful, very rude and unkind things, and he's like you know, who are you to be giving out wisdom to people? Who do you think you are? In that scenario, the natural response, you know, for someone like us would be to turn around and be like why are you saying that? What do you mean to us? Engage in that? He doesn't engage in that.
Speaker 2:He actually turns around and just poses a simple question and he's like to him. If someone offered you a gift and you say no to that gift, whom does that gift now belong to? And the young man was like me, because I purchased it. He's like exactly that's the same. With anger, criticism and any negativity you're inflicting it on me, but it belongs to you that's not my weight to carry with me.
Speaker 2:And that just changed my perspective. I'm like that's right, you're entitled to your opinion, but I don't have to take that on board. Everyone can have an opinion, but I know who I am and your opinion isn't for me to carry with me. Yeah, and that's the way I see criticism. Just block it.
Speaker 2:Don't engage with it. It's not your burden to carry, it's theirs. They're the ones that have to think about it every single day. They're the ones that are thinking about you. Why did you post this? You know so much negativity. I just don't like to engage with negativity, and that's the way I perceive it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a beautiful story, by the way, and reading books actually kind of answers some of those questions that we have it gives us so much wisdom.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, so you're a book reader. Yes, I love books I think I'm sorry psychology books, um spirituality, history. I love learning things about history and sometimes it just answers all these questions that you didn't even know you had, and it just gives you so much insight onto things, yeah, so hey, just talking about the social media side of the things like you have lots of followers, male and female, just gives you so much insight onto things, yeah.
Speaker 1:So hey, just talking about the social media side of the things, like you have lots of followers, male and female followers do you see? A lot of support male, female, male followers are. You know what kind of support you get from that? Yeah, but from the female side of the things, do you get enough, you know, support from other women in the community?
Speaker 2:unfortunately, I would say no. In my experience I haven't seen that. I think things are changing now, because I do see certain creators that do have a wonderful woman following um, but in my experience I think it has been more male dominated. I don't necessarily get that support from women and um, and I think that's quite sad as well, because what I put out there is mainly for women. I want to show them that you can be bold, you can be courageous, you know you don't need to hide and shy away from anything, especially if you, if they don't want to, that's fine before women that have this desire of shining and wanting to put themselves out there.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to set an example for that, yeah, but unfortunately not. Of course, I have my close you know friends with me yourself as well. I think you're a wonderful supporter. It's a bit of a mix and I think there's support but there's also jealousy and insecurity, and we were chatting about this earlier today as well. When it comes to women, we've been oppressed for so long, right, we've been told so many things growing up that don't do this, don't act like this, don't walk like this. I think that's where it mainly comes from the lack of support, because women still have this thing of oh, she's gonna outshine me, mmm.
Speaker 1:I don't want to be left behind. I fear of missing out and I think that, and also the interest of areas yeah.
Speaker 1:I felt like people who are in arts you know who are in, like you know, who are actors, who are in entertainment business, probably have more male dominated following than the women. And then there is interest side of the things women like to buy clothes, makeup, sometimes interior designing, how they want to design their houses, kitchen, all of those things and probably as a result they probably follow those pages more than the actual entertainment pages, whereas men think in a different way and probably that's their window of kind of winding down and they follow the entertainment pages and that's why probably you get lesser. That's probably why I kind of think why women followers are lesser in certain areas, but in saying that supporting one another, especially in one community, is so important, but still it's kind of lagging and I agree with some of those reasons.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think if women were to come together, we would be so successful.
Speaker 1:Honestly, if we were all to just support each other.
Speaker 2:But no, I definitely agree with that. I think there's so many different elements and perspectives to the lack of female following as well, but when I get to connect with other dancers or anyone that's a female in the entertainment industry, I absolutely love it. I'm like, yes, let's do this, let's like shine together. So I absolutely love it, so I'd love to connect with more female supporters.
Speaker 1:All right. So dance is a big part of your life and you know, being a part of Indian communities, we are always dance is a big part of our lives as well, so have you always embraced it from your childhood yes and no.
Speaker 2:A bit of both yes, yes and no growing up.
Speaker 1:I would say, even if you're not interested, your aunties and uncles will push you into it, yes, no, no.
Speaker 2:Growing up, I loved it, absolutely loved it. You know, till this day, if I tell you if I could, I would wear a sari every single day. I love it. I love my culture, I love it. I'm very Indian, but I think I just had so many experiences at a very young age that made me question myself identity. I had an identity crisis as a six, seven year old. But, like I said, growing up I used to love dressing up in Indian suits and lengas and there's so many videos of me, you know, dancing to like Matheri Dixit songs. You know, I absolutely loved it.
Speaker 2:But when I came to primary school, um, I went to a catholic primary school, so you know it was dominantly a lot of white people. I was around a lot of white people. I never really thought anything of it because I'm born here. I was like I'll be fine. You know I identify as an Australian, but I also identify as an Indian, right a bit of both. But, um, the experiences I had were quite disheartening and as a six-year-old I didn't really know how to process it. So it really made me question who I really was. And you know a lot of racial remarks, um, things like curry mancha. I didn't even know what that meant. As a six-year-old, you know, I'd have to go back home and ask my parents what does curry mancha mean?
Speaker 2:and um yeah I know that honestly, it's just a phrase used for indians, because we eat dal and different type of curries I know curry yeah, mancha yeah manchas. You know you're constantly eating it, every single day. Okay, which is now a trend. You know people on tiktok are like ordering.
Speaker 2:We own it now yeah, we own it now people on tiktok are ordering out indian food and they're making videos about how it tastes. So obviously things have shifted now. But in my primary school experience it wasn't like that. I would eat Indian food during lunch and people would be sitting next to me and they would be like Ew, what is that? What's that yellow stuff that stinks? I stopped eating lunch.
Speaker 2:So what I would do is we had teachers next to bins because they didn't want you to throw out your food. I would pretend I'm eating my sandwich, walk out and I'll throw it in the bush. And I'd miss repetitively because of all these children that were asking me what I'm eating. And it was all negative. It wasn't out of curiosity, it was a lot of negativity and it just made me feel out of place. And you know I had that pressure of fitting in. I wanted to fit in, like everyone else, so I threw away my lunch. I wouldn't eat lunch anymore and once the teacher saw that I had threw my lunch out and instead of questioning me why, straight away called my parents. You know, we had a meeting. She's not eating, she's throwing out her lunch and just left it at that but, a simple why would have?
Speaker 1:changed it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it would have allowed me to open up and you know, like I said, um questions about my appearance or like other remarks like oh you guys have so many gods, you know we still get that till this day. Right, who do you believe in? And I've always been encouraged to embrace everything, like as an Indian and as a Hindu. I was going to a Catholic school, so you can imagine how open my parents are. You know, I'm learning to embrace everything. I'm respectful of everything, um, but not everyone has that same mindset. But as a six-year-old, seven-year-old, I didn't know how to process these things around me and, like I said, I love Bollywood. I'm filming, I'm so this year at heart. You know, I used to pump Indian music throughout school, like, going into the school, mom would be dropping me. I'm listening to my Bollywood music. That stopped. I would lower the volume as soon as the school gates opened.
Speaker 2:Then I would pretend to be someone else to fit in and I think somewhere subconsciously, I just carried that along throughout my high school years. I suppressed that Indian side, stopped dancing I think I became, they say, whitewashed, very whitewashed, trying to fit in. But then when I used to go back home my routine used to be change and go dance, because that's how I used to process my emotions. So it was still there, but it was hidden. So only people that were close to me knew how much I loved being Indian and how much I loved dancing but, throughout my high school years.
Speaker 2:My closest friends didn't know. I hid it from them because of those experiences in primary school and it wasn't up until you know this, this, this isn't something that I'm hearing for the first time and.
Speaker 1:I'm not surprised that this still happens. But, I've heard many stories of how people change their ways of lives just to fit in, because they're too scared of getting bullied. This is almost like getting bullied, right? Yeah, it was indirectly.
Speaker 2:Do you think it's still the case A hundred percent? I think it is Like I said, I carried it out till year 12. It wasn't up until year 12, where I was away from school and that society, that I really started embracing who I was and started reconnecting with my culture. I still definitely think that happens. As a behaviour therapist, I have a lot of kids that I work with and they tell me their stories and I've also, unfortunately, had children that have taken their own life because of bullying. Wow, so you hear those stories and it's really disheartening.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, like you said, it's that pressure of fitting in. And I think it is definitely more tougher for people of colour because of the racism, and I think racism towards Indians in particular is so normalized in Australia. I still don't understand why. But overall, I think all of us in our daily lives, at some extent we are just trying to survive. You know, we're trying to conform to society. We're trying to. It's like a race, yeah, but no one knows where that race is going, where. What are we racing to, you know? But I think it's that pressure of fitting in. It's about survival, yeah, but how can a kid that's only six years old, know how to survive yeah you know, I think society really takes that innocence away.
Speaker 1:It scares me when, when a six-year-old has to face this and also discover ways out of exactly you know to fit in and also change their you know cultural identity as well, to basically, yeah, not get bullied, let's just say that, exactly, yeah, I hope this is not the case.
Speaker 2:Now I feel like it has probably come out a little bit and improved in ways, yeah, and I think I got recognised for being Indian and I can proudly say this. You know, with my dancing and everything, I got recognised because I'm Indian and I wear that as a tiara on my head that. I'm Indian. You, you know I'm so proud of it. But it was a long journey. It took me a lot of time to actually embrace being Indian.
Speaker 2:It was always there, but I just I was suppressing it, but now I'm freely showing that to the world and getting recognised for it, and I absolutely love that. I've always loved my culture. I think it's such a rich culture, you know, and it's so inclusive as well, it's so supportive, and I absolutely love it and I thrive being indian let's talk about your behavioral therapy, right?
Speaker 1:uh, what, uh? What were the factors or what was your inspiration towards? Doing behavioral therapy, like you said. I can gather some things about you to say that, why you have adapted to that. But I think I'll let you speak about it?
Speaker 2:yeah, of course. So I studied psychology and criminology and growing up, it was always an interest of mine. You know the way the human brain works and why people react the way that they do, and, of course, I had my own stories, as you know, and I know what it feels like to be an outsider, to be left alone. There was a factor of wanting to help people, but a lot of it for me was an interest how the human brain works. Why do people act like that, and I always justify other people's actions. That was my biggest giveaway. You know, when someone does something, I'm like, oh, but they probably did this because of this, this, that. So I think I was always really good at observing and just seeing why people react the way that they do. So that was something that inspired me to pursue that in the educational side of things.
Speaker 2:But education is very, very different compared to when you're out on the field. So my first job was actually as an ABA therapist. So I was working with children living with disabilities, and I can't explain to you the feeling of when a child can't talk. Yeah, but they run up to you with so much happiness and so much love, yeah, just because you're there, and the way that they try to grasp every moment of life and they're so happy and that Things that we would miss. You know we're busy complaining, they're just grasping onto every moment and they're happy that made me feel like this is the job, this is what I want to be, and I never thought of being in a field with children, it just happened.
Speaker 2:And that experience led to me going into behavioral therapy, because behavioral therapy is about supporting individuals living with disabilities and mental health challenges. Yeah, and that's what I do now and I love it. It's, it's so rewarding. Yeah, but I also get that stimulation because I get to work in prisons as well, so that criminology side of things is also there, so I get my foot in both places.
Speaker 1:I was actually watching this series Adolescence. It's kind of making a big noise in there if you have, you watched it.
Speaker 2:I have. It's amazing and I think the actors have done an amazing job as well portraying that subject, because it's a very heavy subject and it's not really spoken about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah so this, this particular episode where the psychologist goes to talk to the like yeah, accused, it's a 13 year old boy, and it was. I was almost at the edge of it. Right like yes. I was like it was really good, nicely portrayed, but also, but also, the like the you know the heated conversation. It gets to a point where you know this person's actually controlling her emotions, putting up this face and getting intimidated by a 13 year old kid. Right, and they showed it very well. The actors did very well as well.
Speaker 1:But you know in reality, when you're dealing with kids, does that actually, is that common, like you actually get scared of a little boy, yeah, I think it's definitely more common than you think I've had similar.
Speaker 2:Did you say it's more common? Yeah, it's more common than you'd think, but I think, because it's such a heavy topic, not many people come forward and speak about it. But if you were to go research and look into some articles and books, you'll find that it's actually much more common than you think. But I think we miss it because ideally, when you think of a 13 year old, you think, yeah, they're just, you know, chilling going through these things. You miss those signs sometimes. I, in my experience, I've actually dealt with kids much younger with very extreme behaviours. I actually was able to identify a psychopath. So yes, it was very interesting. I worked with this child for two, three years. I would say it took me a while to get to that conclusion, but the traits started when he was about six years old. That's when the traits started.
Speaker 2:So, it's much more common than you'd think, but I think you need a different lens to be able to observe it, and it can be really intimidating, because this child, although he was six, would speak to me as if he's 30 using words like darling love out of nowhere and at that point you just have to, as a professional, have that space. But after the sessions I'm like, oh, what was that? You know?
Speaker 1:So let's get a little bit deep into your behavioral therapy side of your profession. Right, tell us a little bit about yourself, your profession, what do you do, what does your work involve, and what kind of what do you do, how, how does it? What does your work involve and what? Kind of people. Do you see? What does your day look like?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's everything, of course sir, yes, I'm a behavior therapist. My role is about supporting individuals just navigate daily life. I work with individuals specifically living with disabilities and mental health challenges. So I go in and I focus on behaviors behaviors that you would find concerning. It could be simple as verbal aggression or physical aggression, but I don't just focus on the behavior right. I focus on what happened before and what triggered them to act that way. So my role as a behaviour therapist is to identify what are the actions and steps that we can take for them not to react in that way. So, as a society and just individuals that are living with that participant as well, how can they best support them? Because usually when someone acts a certain way, straight away we're blaming. You know it's a blame game and you're wrong. Why did you do that? My role is to take a step back and be like okay, so yes, they physically acted this way but what are the?
Speaker 2:events that occurred before this. Let's try to understand why they're actually acting that way and then we put in procedures and protocols to help navigate that situation, and sometimes my sessions are as simple as just talking to them and getting to know them as well. A lot of counselling is also involved, so there's different perspectives and aspects there.
Speaker 1:I really enjoy it you get your understanding on their understanding of the situation.
Speaker 2:Literally yes and you have to go fresh into each session. You have to adjust to people's personalities, the tone that they've set for the session as well. It's different with every individual. I can't go with the same hat and thinking cap in every session. I have to adjust to it. But it's really fun. I really love doing it. I work with children up to adults and I work with autism, asd, schizophrenia, psychosis, you name it. I work with it. I really enjoy it, like it's a really, really rewarding job. Sometimes it doesn't even feel like a job when you're actually in the sessions and you're talking to them. Yeah, because they're just. They're just trying to navigate daily life, just seeking some support, and I'm there to be that support for them.
Speaker 1:So I absolutely definitely rewarding if you are acting as a support yeah system for somebody.
Speaker 2:Yeah exactly, and I see so many. You know, when they have successes, it's just like yes, you go I love this for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but yeah, that's like a snapshot of what I do, and this is in home services, so my day-to-day actually looks like going to different people's homes and supporting them there. I go into schools, child cares, communities as well anything that they need support with. Where they might feel triggered by things around them, I'm there as that support person for them, right, and I also educate others that are supporting them in terms of what type of strategies they can use that will help them thrive so that I do. And on the other side, I also go into prisons yeah, I was going to touch base on that, so you also support prisoners.
Speaker 1:Yes, tell us a little bit about it. Like you know, when you say prison, I mean, yeah, we have a kind of a picture in place. So how do you go there and what are the cases? What kind of cases do you deal with?
Speaker 2:and, yeah, something that we don't know, of course, yeah. So when I go to prisons, I am still working with those that are living with disabilities, but I have worked with those that have committed, say, fraud, or even murders as well, but I only work within the disability sector, so that's where my support comes in, so there is a disability sector in prison as well?
Speaker 2:Well, not such, but they do get some more supports because of that, because it's necessary and they need it. It's necessary and they need it, it's important for them, so they do get a little bit more supports, like behaviour therapists and occupational therapists and even psychologists can come out and speak to them because of that. So there are some things that they can utilise for that. But prisons in general actually have all of this as well in the prison setting. But for those that are living with disabilities, there are external supports for them available as well.
Speaker 2:Which is like that's where I come in. What do you do? It's the same. It's the same process as you would be doing in home sessions. You're getting to know them, you're trying to grasp of okay, what can we do to make your life better once you're out of prison? So my goal is to set them up for success after they've came out from prison. Okay, but there was so much I didn't know before going into prisons. You know, as a woman, you know I'm like what?
Speaker 1:do I wear? I was waiting for you to share. What is that mind game? Like thoughts that run through your mind when you're going into a prison.
Speaker 2:Honestly, there's so many rules and regulations in place. I feel like all of that just kind of went away when I saw that, okay, there are rules, yeah, they are based on. You basically can only wear the black, white and grey colours because you can't be the same colour as the prisoners. So women and males, they have different colours. So I think I believe it's blue and yellow from memory. No, blue and orange, don't quote me on that. It's been a while since I've last went, but you don't wear the same colours as them, just so that you're not mixed up when they do rounds.
Speaker 1:So blue and orange are for the prisoners. Yes, yes yeah, potentially.
Speaker 2:yes, don't quote, I have like poor memory on that.
Speaker 1:That's all.
Speaker 2:So you're basically not allowed to wear the same colours as them, and for women specifically no tight fitting clothing, no heels, no jewellery, no rings, earrings Because even the back of your earring, it can be used as a weapon. Either you can use it against them or they can use it against you. So those are things I wouldn't even have thought about. I wear heels every single day to work, right? So when I read that I'm like, oh, and it makes so much sense. Even with a pair of shoes, the heels are so sharp, so if you were in a situation it could be utilized as a weapon, right. So that's one thing and there's a whole protocol.
Speaker 2:It takes months sometimes to actually get permission to go into a prison for a sighting as well. There's so many security checks and it's like an airport when you actually reach there. So you put all your things your jackets, all of your accessories in the machine. It gets scanned, they scan you. You can't even take your own pen. They will give you their own pen. It's quite safe, I would say so. I was quite surprised by that. I actually felt very safe because there's an officer that will escort you to the room where the participant is and you can have your session there and, if you want the officer to stay with you in the session. You can as well. Otherwise they're usually standing outside. When you go to more of the high profile prisons, where there is more cases of extreme, where they've been charged with really extreme things, that's where they would be cuffed to the table no, speaking to them.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, okay. Do you enjoy this or you get scared? I enjoy it, I think for me I mean you're saying this. I'm like I would be so scared to get into that environment. Yes, leave out after watching that yes yeah, that whole setup would scare me, but you're saying you enjoy it yeah, I think it's quite stimulating for me.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm I don't know. For me it's always been an interest in how the human brain works. So the more interesting cases and complex cases I get, I enjoy them more, because it keeps me on my toes and I, I love intelligence, so anything that can give me more wisdom I I love. I love knowledge, so I always want to know the unknown. That's the thing about me. I'm so curious, so I actually really enjoy it, and I think I enjoy it because it's safe as well. So actually when I went, I didn't feel intimidated. I've never really had any. I've never been put in a situation there that I felt unsafe, and all of my participants are well behaved with me because, at the end of the day, they know we're there to support them. So they were to act out. We get removed, so you know. That's why they also engage in a polite way. Yeah and yeah, I just find it really interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so do you go to the cell or you.
Speaker 2:You can go to the cell, but you again need a special permission for that. There's this whole protocol. You need to explain why you need to go to the cell. So you've been my role. It's necessary to go to the cell because I need to see how they're living or how they they're functioning day to day. I definitely can, but there's a whole different protocol. I run most of my sessions in meeting rooms that they have in prisons, right? Okay yeah, that sounds a bit more safe, yeah, yeah it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very interesting. It's very different as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so talking about more about your experiences, what was one of those works that you've done created a big impact? Yeah, or you thought it made a difference for you.
Speaker 2:I feel like it's every day. I work honestly because I work with such special individuals. It's like I said, it's so rewarding. But if I can think of a story, it would be very early on when I went um. When I first started in this field, I was supporting an individual who was diagnosed with schizophrenia and psychosis. So with these two diagnoses, individuals have hallucinations. They'll hear voices. Sometimes these voices can tell them to, you know, hurt themselves or harm other people. So it is quite risky. And that's where medication comes into place, so that hallucinations can go down and they can, you know, sleep well and all of these other things as well. And she had gotten onto this medication.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And she didn't feel like herself. So she was like I don't feel like myself anymore and I questioned her. I'm like what do you mean? She's like those voices were a part of me. You know that's. That's what she's used to. Now with the medications it was, you know, decreasing. Yeah, in her scenario wasn't anything that was dangerous or risky, so there was nothing alarming that the voices were telling her. But medically there is always a risk and this is a decision that was made by the whole medical team and I was just an allied health support for her at that point. But she said to the whole team you know I don't feel like myself. Yeah, and everyone's like no, it's going to help you function. You know you'll be able to go out in society and do normal things right, emphasis on normal. And she's like, yeah, but that's at your cost. She's like you want me to function based on what society thinks is functioning but what?
Speaker 2:about me. Yeah, yeah, you know, and that changed my perspective, because I'm like I have to listen to what she wants at the end of the day and we have to meet in the middle. And she was right. What is normal, what is functioning normally, means in this. What does that mean in society? Normal means different things to different people.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. So we're all squeezed into this box. Maybe she doesn't want that, you know. Maybe she's happy where she is and she's got a group of people that are supporting her for those risky behaviors and as such. But just change something in me. You know, my whole perspective changed. I was like, okay, it's about the environment. We need to change the environment rather than focusing on fixing this person yeah not.
Speaker 2:We don't need to treat them like a patient. You're an individual. They have their own identity. That diagnosis is a part of them, but it doesn't define them. It just changed my whole perspective. I'm like we have to change the environment. We have to make the environment a better place for these individuals, just like we do for everyone. So why are there so many boundaries placed on them? So that's something that stuck with me. So now, in each session, I go with that. I'm going to help others around them, make a bigger impact, rather than focusing on them. As a patient. That's not necessary, and I learned so many things in this journey. You always hear people say, like he has autism, he's autistic right? You'll never hear me saying that. I will say living with autism, because you're living with it, but doesn't define them. Yeah, so many beautiful things I learned during this journey that I would have never even thought of. Our words matter so much as well, right? So that's taught me the impact of words as well but, that's what I do now.
Speaker 2:I'm like I'm there to support them. They're the focus and let's fix the environment, let's fix the society for them.
Speaker 1:So that they feel comfortable. It's a side that people probably your followers do not know about you. I guess right.
Speaker 2:It's completely a shift from what you are on social media and I completely agree, you use it as an escape from your original side, which is yeah, social media is just a glimpse of who I am, and that's not all I'm limited to, right? I think people are quick to making assumptions, yeah, but I choose to present what I want on social media, right, that's what I've kept it. I've kept it really professional to show my arts and performance, because that's what I want it to be. But that's not all I'm limited to. There's so many other things and I think there's there's such a beautiful opportunity to explore that together. Yeah, so I love it and I'm so grateful to be here with you.
Speaker 1:It'd be good for people to know you as you are, not just as, like you know social media dancing side of the thing, but also know a little bit of your personal story and your journey and your job. It's thrilling that you go and meet. You know prisoners in the jail. And also impactful work. So I have a few questions with respect to your job as well as your personal social media, kind of a this or that. Oh, I have to be quick, you've got to be quick.
Speaker 2:Rapid fire round yes, something similar to rapid fire. Rapid fire round yes, something similar to rapid fire. So let's do that Okay.
Speaker 1:So you'll have to pick one. Okay, this or that, and it need not be one or the other. You can just say more inclined towards that. Okay Based on your personality or your choices. Okay, so I'm going to pick this one. Okay so, natural therapy, nature therapy Sorry, not natural therapy. It's nature therapy or talk therapy. Talk therapy, yeah, I can.
Speaker 2:I get it. I'm a chatterbox, right, you're a bit of a talkative person.
Speaker 1:Emotional intelligence or IQ. Emotional intelligence, okay, reading minds or controlling emotions.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's so tough, I would say, controlling emotions for me. Yeah, yeah, reading minds would be a gift, I think, I think, read someone's mind, but I think we need to be in control of our emotions.
Speaker 1:You know it's important, yeah deep conversations or light-hearted small talk. Deep conversations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you know, those late night phone calls, dms at 12 am.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely love those. Yeah, you like psychology books or self-help books?
Speaker 2:Self-help books. Yeah, and I think they overlap. Self-help books are good Okay.
Speaker 1:More inclined towards self-help. Okay, let's talk a little bit about social media and the downside of things. Again, this and that, so TikTok or Instagram for me. Instagram, okay. Do you like choreographed routines or freestyle?
Speaker 2:Freestyle and, fun fact, any dance reel that you see on my Instagram is not choreographed, it's freestyle, so I just put on the camera, start the music and whatever comes, I do Go with the flow.
Speaker 1:That's the way. Do you like wild dance challenges or more traditional cultural dances, traditional and cultural dances, yeah watching dance for fun or analyzing movement psychology, since you have studied psychology, I do um.
Speaker 2:I think I just enjoy it. Just enjoy it, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:These are more around your life and career, helping one person deeply or inspiring a thousand people. What would you choose?
Speaker 2:That's so tough, I think in your case, it's both. It is both. Yeah, because I have a lot of one-on-one yeah, but I think inspiring a thousand people to help themselves, yeah, yeah Would be.
Speaker 1:What would you prefer studying human behavior or influencing social trends? Human behavior, Because if you master that, you can master the second one Okay yeah, true, being in the spotlight or working behind the scenes, being in the spot yeah, not even like I'm just gonna say it.
Speaker 2:I love it's a no-brainer for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah okay, structured routine or spontaneous adventures. Spontaneous adventures okay, yeah, and the last one, solo self-care time or social bonding.
Speaker 2:My social battery dies very quickly, so it's more self-care time.
Speaker 1:Okay that's amazing. So let's talk about you. What's future holding for Saailja?
Speaker 2:Big question mark, which I think is okay. It's okay not to know, because I used to have a really, really way of thinking. I used to be like this is what I want my life to look like, and I've achieved a lot of those things, but I realized I missed so many beautiful things along the way because I was so focused on this is how I want it to be, this is the goal that I want.
Speaker 2:So now I'm actually learning the art of surrendering, trusting the universe that things are gonna unfold as they're meant to just letting go and not getting caught up in those things and obsessing to the point where I'm losing out on you know, time with my friends or my partner or my family, you know. I just want to be able to enjoy that, because I don't know what's going to happen in five years. I could plan something and it could backfire, and that's happened before. Of course, I still have my goals and ambitions to be on the screen and perform. I think that's a huge part of me, and to always be able to explore. Self-expression is always going to be there. But I'm also just letting go, letting things be the way that they are. But, above all, I really hope my future self is at peace.
Speaker 2:Yes, happy, and somewhere down the track I would love to just move to a countryside away from chaos. Yeah, have a lot of animals, open animal shelter. I love animals. I volunteer at animal shelters or I want to have my own. Yeah, I love animals. That's it's very deep and I have so many pets. I think animal love is just so pure. I love it. So that's like my mini little peaceful dream that I have. That I would love to eventually have. But I just want to enjoy the journey on that way, but I really hope it's, like I said, full of freedom, compassion and self-expression.
Speaker 1:That's nice, you've got you.
Speaker 2:You know your end goal, you've got it nicely laid out and what you want to do is go with the flow.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly I mean, that's probably the way to go as well, not strictly obsessed over one thing. Yeah, yeah, it's time kind of changes for people. Lastly, you know, looking at your profile, how you are on social media, how you are on a personal side and on a professional side side, the one thing that also stands out is you know you're very glamorous as well. Like you dress up, you dress up, yeah, and you have no regrets, you don't? You do not want to think about others. Obviously, you mentioned that, um, you do not wait for someone else's validation, etc. So, um, I'd like you to talk about or advise people who think twice or numerous times about doing anything in their life.
Speaker 2:Right, Some words about that. You know that Indian saying kuch toh log kehenge, log ka kaam hai kena. I really believe in that.
Speaker 1:Is that a Bollywood line?
Speaker 2:Yeah, honestly I think it is, but you know I am filming, but it's so true. People are always going to have something to say, and my thing is that when death comes knocking on your door, is anyone else going to take your place? Any of those people that you're fearing of judging? Are they going to come take your place? They're not right. You have to go. So then you need to make the judgment yourself. You need to write a book that you're proud of. That's going to be my advice. So go for it. Just go for it. People are going to always say something, whether you're good to them, bad to them. You don't know what people are saying behind your back. Anything you do, people are going to talk. That's something you can't control, but you can control how you want your life to be. You can't control other people's actions, but what is within your control, you can control it. That's going to be my advice.
Speaker 1:Just go for it, yeah lovely and really good to know you're behind the Instagram reel Two different people. Yes, there's so much more to you than just Instagram, so that's really good to know, and I'm glad that this platform was useful. It's so showcase that. Yeah, as well. So thanks for coming on the show. It was pleasure talking to you, as well as good educational stuff, I hope so I hope so.
Speaker 2:thank you so much for having me and, like I said, I think you're doing so amazing and thank you for being so supportive always. Thank you Honestly.
Speaker 1:Thank you for watching this episode of Brown Queen Diaries. This is your host, priyanka, signing off until next episode.
